Kayak Questions - What to Buy???

[mfbab]

Hi, I'm new to the forum but I've lurked here occasionally and there seem to be some very knowledgable Kayak fishermen here, so....
I'm in the market for a Yak but I don't know much about them, I was hoping some of you guys could help me get started off right!
I searched Google and even this forum, but haven't found much help for most of the questions I have, hopefully this thread will turn into something that might help others as well as myself.
Thx,
Rob

My Kayak Questions:
- I'm looking for a SOT Kayak for fishing Ponds and maybe some moderate river fishing, nothing beyond class II, but there will be rocks in the streams (Smallie/Trout water).
- I'd like to be able to stand up in it.
- I’m a complete novice, so please assume I know nothing whatsoever about this! I’ve fished my whole life and owned many boats from pond prowlers to bass boats and even one canoe, but I’ve never tried a Kayak yet.

Price:
- I see a range of around $3-400 entry level at Dicks or Walmart (Sun Dolphin, Pescador), and then up to over $1500 on the high end (Hobies, Jacksons, etc..) for the various SOT Kayaks.
- Can someone please explain the differences and whether they are performance related or more along the lines of rigging, etc?
- With a $1000 spread in the pricing, I’m thinking there must be some big differences I’m not aware of!

Weight:
- Are the more expensive models heavier duty, or fiberglass construction? Or are they all roto-molded plastic?
- I would probably be using a roof rack part of the time, and sometimes a pickup truck.
- Is a trailer the best option, and if so any recommendations?

Length:
- I’ve read that I need around a 12’ Because the shorter ones won’t track as well, ie: sway during paddling or in windy conditions.
Is this good advice?

Stability:
- Is it easier to stand up in one type or another?
- Does length factor into that or is it more width, or both?

Comfort:
- I’m assuming the SOT is the way to go for fishing. I’ve seen some info online that indicates you should put part of your initial investment into a good seat.
- What are some good seats to look into? Homemade options?
- I saw a Youtube where someone took a low profile beach chair and put it on a SOT Kayak, basically copying one of the retail models, maybe a Jackson seat? Anyone tried something similar?

I guess my biggest question is this:
- Can I buy one of the cheaper models and modify it / rig it out myself (rod holders, sonar mounts, straps, etc…) and wind up with something comparable to the higher end ones, or is there a lot more to it than that?

Thanks in advance for any help.
Sorry to ask so many questions, I just want to get set up right the first time. Unfortunately I don’t know anyone to ask personally so I thought this would be the way to go.
Also, not a lot comes up on Google searches for these kinds of comparisons. Any useful links I may have missed would be appreciated too!

Thx,
Rob

[yak10asee]

I fish out of a Wilderness Systems Ride 135. It is an awesome yak. I like it bc I can stand with no problem. Most of the good yaks out there are roto molded. You could probably use a Ride 115 and be just fine. I recommend getting fixed up with Chad Hoover over at Hook 1 in Hendersonville. They have some demos you could paddle around and get a feel for them. If you are on Facebook, there is a group called TN Kayak Anglers https://www.facebook.com/groups/566343970063604/
They are all helpful with info on what is out there and some even have a few extra they would probably let you use.
There are countless videos on youtube to learn about rigging. I also use Texas kayak fishing forum as they have a lot of ideas and posts. There is nothing wrong with getting a cheaper yak and fixing it up to your likings. I didnt paddle too many after the 135 so I cant help you with the Ascend, Sun Dolphin, etc. Get out and paddle some demos and I know you will find what you like. There are always used yaks coming up for sale on Craigslist or facebook pages. I can tell you this. My yak is 13.5 feet long. It fits in the back of my Toyota Tundra. I bought a bed extender from Harbor Freight and that helps with support. It is not a light kayak. It weighs around 80-85 pounds. It can be cumbersome at times but I have a cart that I use. Hope this gives you an idea.Good luck in your search.

[Mr.Duk]

X 2 on Chad's group at Hook1. I also use a Ride 135, great float.

[FOXZILLA]

I've owned several different types of kayaks and the sot is the only way to go. I had a WS Ride 115 and now have a Jackson Cuda 14. Both are incredibly stable and very easy to stand in. As said in the previous post, go paddle them. Hook 1 is good and definitely go see Joel at Big Rock Market on the Caney.

[Alphahawk]

There are a lot of kayak fisherman on the forum....many of them some of the best in the country. I know you live in the Memphis area so HOOK1 would be a ways to travel for you. I used to live in West TN and if there is a kayak shop close to there I am not aware of it....and I am talking about a kayak shop...not just a place that sells kayaks. A visit to HOOK1 would be worth your while as you could demo many makes and models of kayaks and find what is right for you. Plus at HOOK1 they can answer any and all questions you have about kayaks....kayak fishing....kayak rigging. I am in the process of purchasing my 4th kayak this week up at HOOK1......it is about a 100 mile drive for me to get there but it is the place I go for all my kayak needs....they have the answers and will not put you in a kayak that they know is not right for you just to make a sell. There is no need for me to tell you about any of the past boats I have owned as they just may not be suited for you. The best info I can give staying as objective as I can is this.....comfort....comfort.....comfort......and you do get what you pay for. If you are not comfortable in it you won't use it. Buying the right kayak for your individual needs is extremely important and if the wrong decision is made buyers remorse will set in real quick. There is no single perfect kayak. I am sure some others will chime in here as well.


Regards

[Dakota]

You hit the correct forum because these yak users definitely know what's going on in that industry. Alpha is correct hook1 would be worth your trip. Call ahead maybe talk to them on the phone before you make the trip. Maybe they can set some time aside just for you.


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[mfbab]

Thx guys, I appreciate the input.

I've been looking up a lot of the various models to figure out some of the differences, it seems like you can find good reviews on a wide range of different kayaks, all across the price spectrum.
I'm guessing if I took a stock under $600 kayak out and then took a stock over $1000 one out right after that, I'd probabluy notice big differences in comfort and performance, and probably find a lot more built in options on the more expensive one.

I may make the trip to hook1 or at the least hit some local stores. We've got Sportsmans Warehouse, Bass Pro and Dick's here, and 1 or 2 smaller places that may be a little closer to hook1 in terms of service as well.

The comfort element will be pretty important to me (I'm used to big boats ), and I think Alpha is probably right about not wanting to use it if it's uncomfortable.

Again, thanks for the comments and any beginner advice you have, I'd appreciate it.
I've been looking at the various battery options for electronics, various anchor ideas, all of the things you guys probably went through when you started
I'll let y'all know what I end up with, it won't happen tomorrow but I'll probably settle on something within the next couple of months.

Basically, I'm looking for:
- SOT
- 11' -13' range
- Good quality seat
- Reasonable weight
- Good Stability
Does that sound about right?? Any other must haves?
I'm pretty comfortable rigging everything out, my boats all have their share of screw holes, I just want to make sure I get a good platform and go from there.

[shogun]

Originally Posted by mfbab

I guess my biggest question is this:
- Can I buy one of the cheaper models and modify it / rig it out myself (rod holders, sonar mounts, straps, etc…) and wind up with something comparable to the higher end ones, or is there a lot more to it than that?


Thx,
Rob

To me, this (modification) is almost as much fun as fishing from a kayak. You're gonna get more comfort, convenience, and more options with a higher priced kayak.

With me it came down to price. Like everything else, kayak fishing may not be for everyone. I didn't know if I'd like it...so I went relatively cheap for my first kayak last spring. If I didn't like it I would not be out that much $. That being said...I love it, but far from ready to upgrade. I have the perception 12 from academy ($450), and am pleased.

Anyway, my $.02

[mfbab]

Originally Posted by Alphahawk

I am in the process of purchasing my 4th kayak this week up at HOOK1......it is about a 100 mile drive for me to get there but it is the place I go for all my kayak needs....they have the answers and will not put you in a kayak that they know is not right for you just to make a sell. There is no need for me to tell you about any of the past boats I have owned as they just may not be suited for you. The best info I can give staying as objective as I can is this.....comfort....comfort.....comfort......and you do get what you pay for. If you are not comfortable in it you won't use it. Buying the right kayak for your individual needs is extremely important and if the wrong decision is made buyers remorse will set in real quick. There is no single perfect kayak. I am sure some others will chime in here as well.
Regards

Alpha,
May I ask what model you're looking at right now?
I've been scouring reviews online and the WS Ride 115 and 135 are looking like either one would suit my needs pretty well.
Based on the reviews, the stability sounds amazing in these, although they seem to be a little on the heavy end as well.
I don't think the weight will bother me too much, but I like the idea of max stability assuming they handle reasonably well.
The reviews I'm reading say they aren't the fastest but track well and are almost impossible to tip.
I want to be able to stand up in it and maybe hop out for a swim once in a while as well, which the reviewers say is OK, particularly with the 135.

Also, I will be mounting a Lowrance SI unit on mine, any advice on the transducer location?
Are you using the hull or some sort of arm for yours?

Thx,
Rob


Also Shogun, I'm with you 100%, I love messing with boats almost as much as fishing

[Alphahawk]

Originally Posted by mfbab

Alpha,
May I ask what model you're looking at right now?
I've been scouring reviews online and the WS Ride 115 and 135 are looking like either one would suit my needs pretty well.
Based on the reviews, the stability sounds amazing in these, although they seem to be a little on the heavy end as well.
I don't think the weight will bother me too much, but I like the idea of max stability assuming they handle reasonably well.
The reviews I'm reading say they aren't the fastest but track well and are almost impossible to tip.
I want to be able to stand up in it and maybe hop out for a swim once in a while as well, which the reviewers say is OK, particularly with the 135.

Also, I will be mounting a Lowrance SI unit on mine, any advice on the transducer location?
Are you using the hull or some sort of arm for yours?

Thx,
Rob


Also Shogun, I'm with you 100%, I love messing with boats almost as much as fishing

I'm getting a Native Slayer Propel 10. I have owned a Ride 115 with the elevated seat......the new seat they have in it now is like sitting in your chair at home......and really enjoyed it. I am a big guy.....296 pounds. One could fall out of the Ride 115 but I would have to do something really stupid on flat water to flip one......I really liked the way the Ride 115 glided through the water. I have stood in the 3 kayaks I have owned just to say I did it....but standing in any kayak is not for old, fat men.....IMHO. Many of the younger guys on here stand and fish with no problems at all...it is just not for me. Those 3 are the Ride 115....Coosa....Big Game Prowler II. The BG II is extremely stable and I always kept the seat in the elevated position. But it is a beast to load and unload. The reason I am going with the Native Slayer Propel 10 is boat control, and the fact the kayak without the drive unit in only weighs 59 pounds. That is a game changer for me. I will still have my Coosa for river fishing. I have a HB 899 si unit mounted with a Liberator transducer arm and it works out great mounting it on the slide track systems that most kayaks have and if they don't you can install it. On the BG II the transducer was mounted at my hip but on the Slayer I will have it in front of me so I can vertical jig. These SOT kayaks are very stable. Many fish all through the winter in them.


Regards

[tennesseekeith]

I have a 115x and I love it. I take it everywhere from big lakes to creeks. I'm a big guy too. 5'9" and about 240#. I carry 8 rods and 5 Plano boxes. I also have a Old town vapor 10 sit in. I fished it for a year than upgraded.
But I would say go paddle as many different kayak you can.
So theirs a lot of good yak out there. Don't yet anyone tell you that there yak is the best. It the best for them. Maybe not for you.

Pros
for the 115x. It 11.5' long. Weight limit is 500#. The removable console that has the transducer mount. So no extra mount needed. Can stand to fish.

Cons
But the console won't fit a side scan transducer.
It not as fast as the ride 135 but it not the slowest.

Ok other opinions
The ride have the new seat
And any kayak you get. Get a rudder it will be the best extra money you spend
on your kayak.

Good luck on your first kayak.

[Reel Tune]

Wow guys a lot of great answers.

I'll throw my .02 in, and it's a repeat of most everyone else's.

Comfort, comfort, comfort. Try before you buy. Try as many as you can before buying.

I've been kayak fishing since 2009, and I've had 7 different kayaks.

Our first kayaks were Hobie Pro Anglers 14', these in my opinion are the Cadillac of fishing kayaks. We got rid of them after a year and a half due to weight. 3 years later "now" I'm saving up to buy another.

Every kayak I've had has been a Sit on Top and catered to the angler, because that's what I do. I've had kayaks from 11' to 16' and 24" wide to 38" wide.

Narrower and longer will be faster due to less resistance and more waterline. The wider and longer the more stable.

Typically a 13' boat that is 34" wide will be more stable than a kayak that is 10' long and 34" wide.

The shape of the hull has a lot to do with stability also. A pontoon style hull will typically be more stable than a non-pontoon style hull. Boats that have the pontoon style hull are Wilderness System Ride's, and Wilderness Systems Commanders, along with many others.

Comfort is a main concern. If you are not comfortable you will not enjoy it so get a kayak that is big enough for you and your gear, with a good seat. I try to get a kayak that will support me and at least another 200lbs, so the kayaks I gravitate to have at least a 400-450lb or more capacity. If you are pushing the maximum weight limits on your kayak it will be less stable. Modifying and making home brew seats is neat, but by putting something on a kayak that is not designed for it may throw off your balance and negatively effect your performance.

There are many great kayaks out there. The kayak I'm currently in is a Wilderness Systems Ride 135. It is like the SUV of kayaks for me. It doesn't do anything great, but does everything well. I've ran class 3's, paddled 8 miles into the Gulf, paddles up some small creeks, I can stand and flip, and it's big enough for me and my gear.

Like was said earlier stop by a kayak shop geared toward fishing and try a few out. Ask questions.

I like using an actual kayak dealer geared toward fishing because they know what my needs are, they have paddled almost every boat out there, if I have a problem a year or two down the road they will take care of me, if I buy a boat they help me out with a discount on accessories like rod holders, pfd's, paddles, and many other items.

[tsuggs]

Here's my graph setup,got the ideA off native watercraft owners forum.The natives have groove trac systems for mounting,I havent drilled a hole yet.Mine is a sit in but extremely comfortable.Scotty and Ram mounts are the bomb.

[mfbab]

Again, thanks for all of the great input!! It's great to see some comparisons b/w the different models, especially from you guy's whove owned a few different kinds! This is exactly what I was hoping for, really appreciated!!

I found a pretty good website for reviews and general info: http://www.paddling.net/
They have at least some info on just about every Kayak model on the market, along with a lot of other info I haven't even gotten into yet, hopefully this will be usefuil for other first time buyers.

Right now it looks like either the ride 115 or 135 are the front runner's, but there are a couple of other models that look good as well, Jackson Big Rig, Prowler BG II, etc.
I'll end up with at least 2 of these within the next year or so anyway because I'm pretty sure my wife will want to get involved at some point too, so I'll get sort of a do-over on the purchase and re-evaluate priorities on the 2nd one after logging some hours on the water.
I'm about 5'9 / 200 but I like to bring a lot of gear along too, so the wide/higher capacity/higher stability boats are looking good to me.
I'm also a year round fisherman, so tipping the boat is not an option for me if I can help it
I haven't seen anything in the lower end of the price range that seems to meet the requirement of 11-13' length and somewhere in the mid 30's in width, and really after researching a little more I'm starting to see some differences in the higher end models that appear to be worth paying for anyway.

I'll try to get over to hook1 sometime after Thanksgiving and look at some in person before making a decision. It will be a huge help to see them and be able to ask questions in real time.

MidTN, those Hobies look awesome, I checked them out at the link above, and they do look like the Caddy of Kayaks The weight looks pretty substantial, and the price does too, but I'm glad to hear that they fish as good as they look from someone who's owned one!!

tenn keith - The rudder sounds like solid advice, definitely something I'll look at when I get to hook1!

Thanks Alpha, I just looked at that Native Slayer 10. That is an AWESOME looking rig!! It's out of my reach right now, but maybe if I fall in love w kayak fishing I'll grow into it. Is that propulsion systen OK in rivers or is that intended to be a flat water boat? Just curious, that looks like a great option for sure, As does the Hobie Mirage drive.

tsuggs - Thx for the pics, I can't wait to get something and start rigging it up! Especially the electronics.

Are y'all using full sized batteries or the smaller types like this?
http://reviews.cabelas.com/8815/0180...=5&sort=rating

Thx,
Rob

[browntrout]

Rob,
I will throw 1 more into the mix. I am a big fan of the Native kayaks. I own a slayer propel 13 and really like it. If you dont want the pedal option they make a plain slayer which has very good reviews. HOOK1 carries them also. I would most definitely make the trip to HOOK1. As was mentioned if you called them and told them you were coming they would set aside time for you. They are the best around!!!!!

Roy