Water flow speed when generating

[TomD]

Ive watched drift boats on the Caney Fork Can someone tell me when the flowage is too fast to safely drift? Can it be determined by the number of generators going TVA schedule as a reference.

Or below Cordell Hull for that matter. My thoughts are to put in at the landing down from the locks and drift down to the Caney Fork.

I haven't had the boat in either the Caney or below Cordell. Its a 14' Grumman 20hp and trolling motor , I've added oars. I took the boat out yesterday at Ragland just to how it would row or handle and its pretty heavy . As heavy as the boat feels or is it did feel manageable but that was in water that wasn't really moving.

I will be alone 99% of the time so Im trying to get it set up so I can drift and troll live bait using the motor to get me back upstream.

Ive seen the Caney Fork when it would float a house ( a big one) whats usually the generating status when the river is really flowing a lot of water like that.

Im thinking of putting in at Carthage motor upstream and float down or putting in below Cordell hull and floating to the Caney.


Can someone estimate what the generation situation was from the picture below. this is the Caney Fork 2 winters ago and I was exploring some access points where I could park and wade and I saw this drift boat looking like they were having a great day. At about what speed would you estimate the drift boat is moving? If anyone recognizes the boat below and would like the file I'd be happy to send it. I just thought it was one of those Kodak moments.

[Halli]

I have not been on it for about eight years but the flow below looks like two maybe three.

I would launch my 16' Bass tracker with a 50 hp Merc and have a ball, Most times I would launch from the Camp site at the dam.

You should be just fine with your set up I 've even tied to the steps at the camp ground (Prob not supposed to) and had lunch then hit the water again after eating.

Pic of one gen.

[bfish]

Center Hill and Cordell Hull are both Army Corp of Engineers dams, not TVA.

Velocity is the measurement you are asking for, however it varies. It involves knowing depth, width, volume of water, and gradient of stream. It changes depending on location on the stream (ie wide deep areas are slower than narrow shallow areas). Most use volume (usually expressed as cubic feet per second or even more variable, the number of generators) to help them estimate velocity. No. of generators does not usually include any sluicing or inflow from tributaries (which may or may not make much of a difference).

[TomD]

http://www.tva.gov/lakes/cnh_r.htm check this link its what makes me think they were TVA dams

If Cordell is running 2 generators and one drifts from from the dam to the Caney (4.3 miles) in say an hour all things remaining the same except the number of generators would 1 generator make it a 2 hour drift?

Also when I look at the release numbers for a certain time of day and for 2 hours the discharge was 5300 cubic ft per second and then it changes to 250 cu ft/sec. Is that related to the number of generators on line?

Would 5300 be very turbulent close to the dam but safe boating say within 300 ft and what would 250 look like close to the dam.

5300 cu ft per second seems like a lot of water.

[TomD]

halli I'll have to look into putting in there. Ive never launched there but have looked at it sometime back when I was using a canoe but put in on the opposite side and the water was really low below the dam. I,m thinking it was a no generator saturday. Folks were wading all down the river.

How many generators do they have at centerhill and cordell hull?

[MNfisher]

5300 with the sluice on the caney, you would have to be atleast a couple hundred yards from the dam, because the sluice puts out a lot of wave action. The 250 is very calm. Enough water at the dam for you, but not enough to float down or drive up with your boat. You might want to drive to the dam and watch the generation with the sluice, then watch it when it's off. The caney has only been generating 2 hrs on the weekends. Meaning its a short window you can effectively navigate up and down the caney with your boat.

[TomD]

Originally Posted by MNfisher

5300 with the sluice on the caney, you would have to be atleast a couple hundred yards from the dam, because the sluice puts out a lot of wave action. The 250 is very calm. Enough water at the dam for you, but not enough to float down or drive up with your boat. You might want to drive to the dam and watch the generation with the sluice, then watch it when it's off. The caney has only been generating 2 hrs on the weekends. Meaning its a short window you can effectively navigate up and down the caney with your boat.

Im lucky enough to be able to check it out during the week Ill make it a point to watch both during the week Cordell and Centerhill. That's a good picture you painted of the water conditions.

[MNfisher]

Mon-thurs, the caney has been generating for about 6 hrs as of lately. That gives a lot longer window of navigating up and down the river. On the Caney Fork it is very important to watch the generation schedule. We have seen pictures on here of very nice boats stranded on sand bars awaiting the next generation time to get their boat off the river. It goes from a river you can navigate pretty easily to one that is pretty much only wadable. I put my 12' in last night And 4 times between happy and the dam I had to get out and drag it.

[tkwalker]

Tom, for your info ... The corps of eng's does own and maintain the Hydros ... But TVA does control the Gen schedule ... The Corps has nothing to do with the control of the Gen schedule ... Just call 800-238-2264 ... The first thing that is said ... the TVA Gen Schedule ... ... You are correct on who controls the the Gen Grid !! ........ <'TK><

[bd-]

With that size boat, you'll want to be on the river when they are generating. If it's off, it will fall out enough for you to get stuck in the shoals farily quickly.

Anything from one generator on up will give you enough water to run, assuming you allow time for the water to rise.

As far as safety, the water will only be rough by the dam if the sluice is open, which is done in the fall and winter to add oxygen. It's unmistakable when the sluice is open - big, churning, frothy water coming out of the middle of the dam with big waves.

Your big hazard downstream will be trees and bridge abutments. Don't get caught sideways against either at anything over 5,000 cfs, or you risk getting swamped and sunk. It has happened to people before.

For that reason, I don't like fishing alone during heavy generation. It's too easy to get distracted, say by fighting a fish, and drift into trouble faster than you think. With two people, you have an extra pair of eyes, so someone can always be looking downstream, and even if one person has his hands full with some sort of problem, the other can start the motor and get out of harm's way if needed.

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[TomD]

I'm getting a much better understanding on how to handle fishing the river from my boat. I appreciate the detail you have all contributed.

A second person in the boat will take a little rearranging but I see the value of an extra set of hands and eyes all the way around. The TVA phone number is now in my phone.

I recall watching the river on a particular day when I saw a huge tree, roots and all, moving down the middle of the river. With the number of accidents in recent years on the Caney I may be feeling overly cautious, or maybe nothing overly about it.

MNFisher were you in the boat alone? Do you go out on the river at night alone? Do you have any special set up on the boat like extra flood or spot lights?

Thanks all

[MNfisher]

I was not alone. No extra flood lights, but with no gens running, there is very little current. With no gens I would feel safe going alone at night.

[Travis C.]

Few of the accidents have happend when the anglers used caution and common sense. There was a kayaker trying to surf the sluice who had his yak cut in half, a couple of fishermen who didn't stay away from the sluice and tried to swim for it where as they may have faired better riding it out in the boat and more than a couple have gotten cross ways sinking their boat at a bridge.

I would never run it at night generation. Night no generation floating it is no issue.

I would never fish the pond when the sluice is on. When its off pretty much any amount of generation is fine to still fish it as there isn't much turbulent water away from gen flow in the pond. I have used a big boat in there fishing it at over 11,000 cfs.

The more water generating is usually safer floating things just happen quicker. Stay away from the shore a cast length and give bridges extra caution due to your speed.

[bfish]

Originally Posted by tkwalker

[B][I]Tom, for your info ... The corps of eng's does own and maintain the Hydros ... But TVA does control the Gen schedule ....

Just a point of clarification, TVA publishes ACOE's generation schedule (as a curtsey), but does not have anything to do with any of the scheduling of flows.

[TomD]

I went to Carthage today and watched both the Caney at the ramp by the AG center ( 1 gen going at 2pm) and it looked inviting. Then went to the Cordell Hull dam it was running 2 and the same it looked the same. No sluice gates open and 2 boats were casting nets.

It has to be so I can handle the boat and fish. Today below the dam and at the Carthage ramp there seems to be enough elbow room to get a good feel for the how the boat will drift.

Until I can figure out how to rearrange my boat for another person I've got to make sure I can get the boat on and off the trailer alone. I was curious how fast the water might be moving at the ramps so today with some generating going on everything seemed manageable ( I need to build some upright side bars for the trailer. I saw the trailers in the parking lot all had up-rights. I did with my canoe and glad of it.