Delayed bass mortality rate

[agelesssone]

As published in the July 2014 issue, page 10
of In Fisherman magazine, regardless of what treatment tournament fishermen used, (oxygen infusion, ice, salt) bass DELAYED mortality in tournaments held in July resulted in 56%, yes, fifty six percent, of the fish dying within five days of the weigh in.

So to all the high minded tournament fishermen who tout "catch and release", you should at least keep your catch and give it to someone who enjoys eating fresh fish rather than donate it to the catfish and turtles who will feast on it in five days!

*Ostrand, K.G., M.J. Siepker, and D.H. Wahl. 2011. Effectiveness of livewell additives on largemouth bass survival. J. Fish and Wildlife Management 2:22-28

[XxthejuicexX]

Wow, Thats crazy to hear. I guess the stress just gets to them.

[TNBronzeback]

Im surprised i havent seen more dead bass at the Long Hunter ramp than i have seen so far. Either the guys arent doing as well in thier catches, or they are doing better at trying to keep them alive. It was bad there last year...every sunday morning there would be half dozen dead bass around the ramp.

[Alphahawk]

Many times over the years I found dead bass lining the bank the day after a weigh in at Pickwick during summer and early fall. The weigh in spot is at a spot I fish for Gills. They weigh them then release them after weigh in back to the lake. By the next morning many are dead. I assume from riding around for hours in hot live wells...but I don't know. I just know a lot of dead bass show up the day or two after a release. This is a pic of the result of an individual pre fishing a tourney on a Friday a couple of years back. He rode around with this fish in the live well all day. He saw me and asked was I fishing for fun or food...I told him both. He wanted to know if I wanted a nice largemouth that was not going to survive. I usually give most of my fish to elderly seniors here in Columbia and so I told him yes....I don't eat large mouth as I just don't care for the taste. He pulled right up to the bank and went in his live well to pull out the fish....which I just assumed must have been a 4 or 5 pound bass as he kept saying how nice it was. When he lifted that fish out I was shocked. It was over 10 pounds. I walked that fish for a long time in the water but it was not going to make it so I put it in the cooler and brought it home. The shell cracker laying beside the bass are 9 and 10 inch fish...so you can tell how big it was. At least the guy just didn't throw it away.....it fed a lot of folks. Shame a big fish had to die like that though. IMHO I think the kayak CPR method should be used in all tournaments. I have always wondered how many tournament fish survived.......I figured the mortality rate had to be high...especially in summer.


Regards

[XxthejuicexX]

I will tell you what the mortality rate of keeper crappie is in my boat, 100%. when put into my live well and then released to my cleaning table they usually only make it 20-30 minutes at best :(

[Alphahawk]

I will tell you what the mortality rate of keeper crappie is in my boat, 100%. when put into my live well and then released to my cleaning table they usually only make it 20-30 minutes at best :(

Yeah.....crappie mortality rate is pretty high...LOL.


Regards

[creekcrappie]

That is sad to hear. I try to take care of my fish as best I can. I rarely have one die on me, and hopefully they don't die a few day later.

[agelesssone]

Isaac, what kills the fish is the stress of being kept in a livewell all day. Plus the beating and battering that happens when they are slammed around in there all day with the running and gunning most tournament fishermen do.

Bad handling practices can hurt too. Try not to handle any part of the fish's body, and don't hold them by the jaw and lift them to horizontal. If a photo must be taken, let the fish hang vertical. Too many people hold the fish's jaw and then raise it to horizontal which injures the fish.

Lots of catch and release fishermen are well intentioned but ill informed.

And the guys that prefish for tournaments just go in and educate fish that most likely won't bite those same lures a few days later. Another study purports to show fish retain a memory bank of lures for about a week.

Myself, I would disagree with that study, having fish break me off, only to catch it again later it the day with my "lost" lure (plastic worm both times) either stuck in their jaw or swallowed in their belly.

Good handling practices will allow most fish to survive.

[Saltwaterwalt]

A few years back I was on Barkley Lake helping set up for a night bowfishing tournament. When we pulled into the parking lot, a bass tourney had just finished, the fishermen were gone and the officials were just loading up their stand, scales, etc. and pulled away also. Thirty minutes later my buddy pointed out some "white" objects bobbing on the surface. Four really nice bass had rolled up on their side near the weigh-in area. Two were dead, two were almost. I tried to revive the two with no luck. After a few minutes I layed them up on the rocks and did the responsible thing ... retrieved my fillet knife out of my truck. :)

They ate well.

[SAMBOLIE]

Throwing the fish in a plastic bag while waiting weigh in can't be healthy.
How long do some fishermen keep the fish out of water parading them around (one in each hand) and then they are kept out of water an additional time in a basket to be weighed.

[MNfisher]

I agree on the mortality stuff. But I disagree on prefishing. While it may educate a few fish. It shows you where they are and what they want. When prefishing, as soon as I catch a fish, I leave the area and find more fish. Catching they 1 fish out of a school or structure, just shows you where to fish. And prefishing is also a great way to eliminate water do you aren't wasting your time during the tourney.

[ttitan27]

Myself, I would disagree with that study, having fish break me off, only to catch it again later it the day with my "lost" lure (plastic worm both times) either stuck in their jaw ore swallowed in their belly.




Some fish, like people just don't seem to get it the first time. I have been guilty of this a few times myself.

[Westwindmike]

I'd like to know if the mortality rate is much lower for a CPR type tourney. The fish I catch, photo and release always swim off at high speed and seem healthy. Wish the big tourneys would go to CPR also.

[nomad60]

Many times over the years I found dead bass lining the bank the day after a weigh in at Pickwick during summer and early fall. The weigh in spot is at a spot I fish for Gills. They weigh them then release them after weigh in back to the lake. By the next morning many are dead. I assume from riding around for hours in hot live wells...but I don't know. I just know a lot of dead bass show up the day or two after a release. This is a pic of the result of an individual pre fishing a tourney on a Friday a couple of years back. He rode around with this fish in the live well all day. He saw me and asked was I fishing for fun or food...I told him both. He wanted to know if I wanted a nice largemouth that was not going to survive. I usually give most of my fish to elderly seniors here in Columbia and so I told him yes....I don't eat large mouth as I just don't care for the taste. He pulled right up to the bank and went in his live well to pull out the fish....which I just assumed must have been a 4 or 5 pound bass as he kept saying how nice it was. When he lifted that fish out I was shocked. It was over 10 pounds. I walked that fish for a long time in the water but it was not going to make it so I put it in the cooler and brought it home. The shell cracker laying beside the bass are 9 and 10 inch fish...so you can tell how big it was. At least the guy just didn't throw it away.....it fed a lot of folks. Shame a big fish had to die like that though. IMHO I think the kayak CPR method should be used in all tournaments. I have always wondered how many tournament fish survived.......I figured the mortality rate had to be high...especially in summer.


Regards

Whoa that is a big old bass there Alpha. Shame it had to die.

[nomad60]

I practice catch and release and always try to get the fish back in the water ASAP. I do take a pic or two and if it's a really nice one, I measure it and then back it goes. If a fish ends up in my live well, that means its going in the skillet. I realize it's different for the tournament guys since they have to weigh in but yeah, being in a live well all day can't be good for the fish at all.

[agelesssone]

The fish that were caught and released immediately only had a 6% mortality rate, unless they were deep hooked.

The study quoted below was more of a study of livewell treatments such as icing, salting, fresh water recirculation than that of handling. Separate studies on handling caution against touching the fish's body and removing their protective slime intimates that the less handling, the better.

[nomad60]

The fish that were caught and released immediately only had a 6% mortality rate, unless they were deep hooked.

The study quoted below was more of a study of livewell treatments such as icing, salting, fresh water recirculation than that of handling. Separate studies on handling caution against touching the fish's body and removing their protective slime intimates that the less handling, the better.

I bet laying the fish on the carpet of my boat to take pics probably doesn't do them a lot of good either.

[Cornbread]

I agree with the weigh in procedure. Keeping a limit in a hot plastic bag while standing in line at weigh in can never be good. I heard recently some college research students did a hybrid mortality study on JPP that found 85% of the fish caught while the water temp was 84 or greater will die. I see very few dead bass but I have seen quite a few hybrid floaters at times. Those bass numbers are shocking.

[MickT]

Cornbread, I have heard the same thing about stripers in the summer. Remember,many hybrids and stripers are stocked, so the fish you throw back or cull that dies is your wasted fishing license dollars.

When a fish dies, as many will usually sink as float, and many swim around for several hours to days before they die. Moral of the story is if you plan to release them, don't take them out of the water any longer than absolutely necessary to get the hook out, and be willing to keep a few legal fish that are in bad shape especially in the summer heat.

[Cornbread]

Good info for sure. I make it a point to friends I fish with that we unhook fish boatside and that cameras are ready for photos. I also agree with the put and take fishery info but I guess I like to think that 6 lber may be 12 in a few more years If I get her back in the water quick.

[jad2t]

Remember,many hybrids and stripers are stocked

To my knowledge they're all stocked because Stripers can't reproduce in fresh water and Hybrids are born sterile since they're a test tube experiment.

[TNBronzeback]

Ive never liked the fact that the big national bass tourney chains FLW, BASS, ect that hit all the prime waters during the spawn....catch a limit of five (in most cases) big spawning females from point "a"...then drive around all day then go WAY down to the ramp at the other end of the lake, in some cases miles and miles....weight them in and toss them back there!
Some might say that nature has a way and the fish find thier nests again and complete the task and others say the bulk of the tourney fish stay in the immediate area of where they were returned. I dont know either way but that just sits kinda rough with me.
When those guys are on St. Clair, they could run south down the detroit river into lake erie or north all the way to lake huron....3 totally different eco systems but all fish are dumped back into 1 area. That seems crazy to me.

[Reel Tune]

Thanks for the information Merv. I have read similar studies with very similar results.

I want to thank everyone for keeping on topic, and being able to have a very good discussion, a lot of forums wouldn't have went the same way.

As for the relocating after a tournament, I've seen studies on Dale Hollow with smallmouth that were tracked weeks after being released from tournaments. Most don't travel far from where they were released. It doesn't show where they were originally caught of course, but I'm sure not many, if any make it back to their homes.

Catch and Release is where it's at. I know there has to be management, but lets manage the smaller fish, and let the breeders with good genes pass on their traits.

[jad2t]

Catch and Release is where it's at. I know there has to be management, but lets manage the smaller fish, and let the breeders with good genes pass on their traits.

That's why I stopped keeping the larger bass from Priest. I don't fish there often anymore but when I still was, I decided to stop keeping the larger bass because I fish tournaments here and there on Priest and want the bigger fish genes to be passed down.

I think we're finally in agreement here on the eating fish thing. Strict catch and release can do harm just as loose size and creel limits. Which is why I think the 15" limit on lakes like Priest isn't helping. This forces guys like me who want to eat some bass from time to time to have to eat the larger fish that
A) don't taste as good as the smaller ones and
B) we normally would want to release to keep growing.

Same in Williamsport. Sure there are big bass in there but there are also a lot of dinks. Too many of them. I really think letting anglers thin out the 12-16" fish in there would do wonders for that fishery in just a few years time. A 20" or bigger fish would be even more common than it already is and I bet those lakes would compete with Chick as far as real trophies go. Instead we can only keep a 20" fish. I don't want to eat a bass that big and neither do most of us and I'd agree that most of us don't want to see strictly 20+" fish (4-5 pounds average at that length) being taken out.

I think conservationists need to set their emotions aside of wanting to release every fish and really think about what's best. Believe me there was a time when I wouldn't hesitate to take a 4lb bass to the dinner table but I've come around and won't do that anymore. The other side needs to meet halfway.

[SAMBOLIE]

That's why I stopped keeping the larger bass from Priest. I don't fish there often anymore but when I still was, I decided to stop keeping the larger bass because I fish tournaments here and there on Priest and want the bigger fish genes to be passed down.


Do you mean the large ones that were offered to you by other fisherman?

Those 12 " fish you catch are not considered large by most.

[Reel Tune]

Great point Jimmy

I grew up on the water whether it was running nets, or trot lines in the river. Running trot lines, and jugs in our own lakes. I grew up catch and grease.
Somewhere along the line I swung the complete opposite direction which isn't right either.
Now, I think I'm more educated now about conservation, and I try to keep an open mind about things.

I do agree with you about the creel limits. I also think Williamsport needs more people enforcing the rules, and do agree with keeping a few 12"-16" fish, but some of those fish may be the fresh stocker Florida strain and that could be detrimental if a lot of them were removed. If you catch a fish of a lifetime I don't see the need in necessarily keeping it. Most good taxidermists can produce a good mount with a few good photos and some measurements.

[Travis C.]

Ive never liked the fact that the big national bass tourney chains FLW, BASS, ect that hit all the prime waters during the spawn....catch a limit of five (in most cases) big spawning females from point "a"...then drive around all day then go WAY down to the ramp at the other end of the lake, in some cases miles and miles....weight them in and toss them back there!
Some might say that nature has a way and the fish find thier nests again and complete the task and others say the bulk of the tourney fish stay in the immediate area of where they were returned.

Here's an example for ya: 2015 Bassmaster Classic Lake Hartwell SC.

Launch at at safe light, fish all day til around 3, load up and drive to Greenville 30+ miles away, wait for weigh in then I guess it's a return trip 30+ miles back to the lake.

I am not biologist but that has to be rough on them... hell it would be rough on me the fisherman.

[Reel Tune]

Travis, same way with the 2014 Bass Master Classic. Guntersville was the lake, and weigh in was in Birmingham. I wonder how many events are like this? You could have a fish in a livewell for 16hrs or so if it's caught early in the day. I know the BASS guys have a lot more sophisticated live wells and additives.

[Travis C.]

I know the BASS guys have a lot more sophisticated live wells and additives.

Yeah... $50 plastic vents. :D

http://www.bassmaster.com/gear/hot-product-press-v-t2

[Reel Tune]

Fancy, lol. I thought some ran oxygen tanks, and shot oxygen right into the livewell, and when those oxygen bubbles came to the surface and popped it created dissolved oxygen? Just what I thought. I don't know if it works or not, but anything has to be better than nothing.

Live weigh-ins with guys holding fish above their heads breaking fish's jaws, and fish deprived of dissolved oxygen is what brings in the money. CPR Tournaments just don't have that same feel to spectators when they see someone at the podium fist pumping with a bass in their hands.

[Travis C.]

CPR Tournaments just don't have that same feel to spectators when they see someone at the podium fist pumping with a bass in their hands.

Have Craig or Mike stand up with SD cards raised in each hand after the next tourney to see.

[MickT]

To my knowledge they're all stocked because Stripers can't reproduce in fresh water and Hybrids are born sterile since they're a test tube experiment.

That was my understanding as well, but I never use "never" or "always" when talking about ecosystems. They will always make me a liar if I do. Triploid grass carp and hybrid bluegills are supposed to be sterile as well and they reproduce. Stripers spawn in freshwater but go to the salt shortly after hatching. I don't know how critical ocean-going is to their life cycle. I would suspect there is some minute level of natural reproduction, but not enough to sustain sport fishing populations.

[agelesssone]

While cruising on Old Hickory today I saw about a 5-6 lb bass belly up. Have no idea what caused it's demise, just sad to see.

[tnpondmanager]

Anyone who told you hybrid bluegill are sterile was somewhat less than well-informed. Some hybrids are sterile, such as hybrid stripers and grass carp; it certainly happens that even these sometimes reproduce, but it isn't common; but some hybrids, such as hybrid bluegill and hybrid crappie, reproduce readily.

[Reel Tune]

Have Craig or Mike stand up with SD cards raised in each hand after the next tourney to see.

We'll have to try it Saturday night:)

[Travis C.]

Fancy, lol. I thought some ran oxygen tanks, and shot oxygen right into the livewell, and when those oxygen bubbles came to the surface and popped it created dissolved oxygen? Just what I thought. I don't know if it works or not, but anything has to be better than nothing.

I wonder what happened to all the bass in the initial BASS tourney's. They weren't catch-release until 4 or 5 years after they were formed and the early tourney years I believe were far more than 5 fish daily limits. Granted that change to catch-release is why live well aeration was developed.

Could they have ate them all or used it as food on the trail? Different times and different folks but curious none the less.

[Andy M]

Isaac, what kills the fish is the stress of being kept in a livewell all day. Plus the beating and battering that happens when they are slammed around in there all day with the running and gunning most tournament fishermen do.

Bad handling practices can hurt too. Try not to handle any part of the fish's body, and don't hold them by the jaw and lift them to horizontal. If a photo must be taken, let the fish hang vertical. Too many people hold the fish's jaw and then raise it to horizontal which injures the fish.

Lots of catch and release fishermen are well intentioned but ill informed.

And the guys that prefish for tournaments just go in and educate fish that most likely won't bite those same lures a few days later. Another study purports to show fish retain a memory bank of lures for about a week.

Myself, I would disagree with that study, having fish break me off, only to catch it again later it the day with my "lost" lure (plastic worm both times) either stuck in their jaw or swallowed in their belly.

Good handling practices will allow most fish to survive.

So what you are saying that an article to bad mouth those "tournament guys" is 100% fact while an article "I" disagree with is wrong.

Come on guys, drive to flippers and patrol around, no where near 50% of them die. No doubt summer time conditions and staying in a live well will reduce the mortality of the fish but to assume one study on one lake apples to all tournaments is absurd.

I don't care if people keep bass for eating as long as they are following the limits so I'm not one of "those people" either, but I do fish lots of tournaments and realize that because of the popularity of tournaments Many, Many technological advances, new lures, improved ramps and parking, and better equipment have come along at reasonable enough prices that normal folks can afford them.

[agelesssone]

So what you are saying that an article to bad mouth those "tournament guys" is 100% fact while an article "I" disagree with is wrong.

Come on guys, drive to flippers and patrol around, no where near 50% of them die. No doubt summer time conditions and staying in a live well will reduce the mortality of the fish but to assume one study on one lake apples to all tournaments is absurd.

I don't care if people keep bass for eating as long as they are following the limits so I'm not one of "those people" either, but I do fish lots of tournaments and realize that because of the popularity of tournaments Many, Many technological advances, new lures, improved ramps and parking, and better equipment have come along at reasonable enough prices that normal folks can afford them.

Andy the "delayed mortality" was noted in the study to have happened up to fives days later. The stressed fish were held in "ponds" for a week after stressing.

[XxthejuicexX]

Maybe it was the Ponds????

[tnpondmanager]

I would tend to side with the studies, and the people who have posted in this thread noting their own observations that concur with said studies. Studies have been done on not just caught and released fish in tournaments, but in general fishing among recreational anglers, and biologists are finding that mortality is much higher than what the average angler might think. Just because the fish swims off, even if it does so vigorously, does not mean it won't die a day or five days later. Even fish that are returned to the water within thirty seconds or less of being caught, and that are not foul- or deep-hooked, can die just from the stress of being caught. The amount of energy fish exert during the fight is many, many times what they do in their daily lives otherwise; it's akin to if one of us suddenly had to run a mile at a full sprint the whole way.

I guided two guys from Pennsylvania back the first week of May. The biggest bluegill they caught was a coppernose that was 10.5" and would have easily weighed between twenty and twenty-four ounces. The fish was lip-hooked, and we only had it out of the water for two photos and then quickly back in; and yet it floated up on its side within a couple minutes of release, and five minutes later was dead.

And that's not a fish that had been in a livewell for eight or ten hours, and was then paraded up and down a stage for minutes at a time out of the water. Just my opinion, but the current fish-handling practices of tournaments are pretty indefensible.

[ditz1]

I have no stats but I am sure that a percentage of caught fish die sometime in the future from the catch and/or release procedure. I am also quite sure that the percentage goes up by a large percentage because of poor handling. Bouncing around in a live well and putting in a plastic bag for weighting in probably at least triples the mortality rate. Bass tournaments have done nothing but hurt our fisheries. Now they do the walleye and redfish tournaments. Fishing is a blood sport but do we really need to increase the blood. Let's do deer hunting tournaments if we want to see some real blood. How many deer can an individual kill in a week.

[TNBronzeback]

Alot of that hinges on time of year and water temps too.
If your fishing a deep lake 30-40 ft down in the south in august....the surface temp could be 90 degrees.....you catch fish 30-40 ft down....im sure the temp difference is pretty drastic....for lack of better words.....you could be slowly boiling the fish to death as its already using energy during the fight.
Its a tough one...
In the hunting world, ya wound an animal....ya do what is right and finish the animal off, yet in fishing, we hook, fight, exhaust, poorly handle the fish, then toss em right back in. Thats a crude and simplified version of it in most cases, but im sure you guys see what i mean.
Just my 2 cents into the convo! Lol.

[Reel Tune]

I wonder what happened to all the bass in the initial BASS tourney's. They weren't catch-release until 4 or 5 years after they were formed and the early tourney years I believe were far more than 5 fish daily limits. Granted that change to catch-release is why live well aeration was developed.

Could they have ate them all or used it as food on the trail? Different times and different folks but curious none the less.

I think most were cleaned and eaten.