possible fish hatchery - a question

[tnpondmanager]

This is an informal survey of sorts. I'm talking with a man I know who has some land and is considering starting a fish hatchery. My question is, if you had a pond, and you were looking to buy largemouth to stock into it, would you rather have northern-strain bass which have been proven in studies to hit lures better than Florida-strain (or F-1's, the cross between Floridas and northerns), or Florida-strain that don't hit lures well but get much bigger on average? Some of you probably know that Shellcracker Lake at Williamsport has Florida-strain largemouth in it.

[Pookie]

I'd rather catch fish!

Most of the time, they don't keep what comes out of a pond anyway.

[bfish]

Cost being equal, IMO, most think that they want a trophy pond. Reality is most would better served with northern strain (as owners tend to not want to do the heavy management needed for a true trophy pond).

[creekcrappie]

Cost being equal, IMO, most think that they want a trophy pond. Reality is most would better served with northern strain (as owners tend to not want to do the heavy management needed for a true trophy pond).

x2

[tnpondmanager]

No doubt that a trophy bass pond takes far more work - just as a trophy bluegill pond does - than a pond managed for middle-of-the-road goals (or one not managed at all). I have talked to several pond and lake owners over the past few years who have F-1's, and in some cases very large ones, but are frustrated because they rarely are able to catch them. But the other side of the coin is, the top fish hatchery in Texas specializes in pure Floridas that have been selectively bred for fourteen years and produced a fifteen-pound bass three years ago, and they seem to have a lot of demand for those fish even though the price on them is exorbitant.

I've been leaning toward the northern-strain simply because most bass fishermen want to use lures, and the Floridas can be pretty humbling to that approach.

[backdoc]

Can the F1's thrive here in small ponds that may freeze over the winter? I understand in lakes but I would think the freeze or extreme cold would be a problem. My uncle has a pond in very southern MS and has huge FL strains in but but its a large pond and it rarely if ever freezes.

We are currently in the process of purchasing a piece of land in college grove with a large 5 acres or so pond on it. I think Im in the middle and want the hybrids. I've always found pond bass easier to catch anyways.

What other species (crappie or bluegill) do you put in there for the bass to feed on??

[tnpondmanager]

Backdoc, F-1s definitely thrive in our area - I have stocked them in several ponds and they get huge. Under the right conditions they can grow to ten pounds in three years.

For forage, I stock coppernose bluegill as the base, and feed them supplementally so they spawn more and grow faster to ideal forage sizes. Then I stock golden shiners and, depending on pond size, threadfin shad. A five-acre pond is big enough for threadfin, and they make a big difference if you don't mind the fact that when we have rough winters like we have had lately you'll probably have to re-stock them the following spring. Tilapia are also good to stock for extra forage but of course they have to be re-stocked every year since they're tropical and kick the bucket when the water temps get into the forties.

I would not recommend stocking crappie into a pond you want to manage for big bass as they compete with the bass for food. There is a way to manage smaller ponds now specifically for crappie, but if you're after big bass, I would skip them.

[DPowell]

What other species (crappie or bluegill) do you put in there for the bass to feed on??

Large Gizzard Shad. That is what trophy bass eat. I have a 2 acre pond with trophy bass in it. I stock a thousand Gizzards in there through out the year. If you can get 12"+ Gizzards they may take hold and reproduce in the pond and not need to be restocked. Threadfin do work but a good population of bass can eat them up quick. Plus like stated cold winters can wipe them out.

[tnpondmanager]

Gizzard shad can work under the right circumstances. More often, however, they hurt the fishery rather than help it. They can grow to 18", bigger than any bass can eat. I just finished draining a five-acre pond that had hundreds of gizzard shad over 12" - and not a single one small enough for the bass in the pond to eat. The biggest bass in the pond was three pounds.

[Reel Tune]

If it were my pond I would like a happy medium. A pond that grew big bass, but could catch on artificials. Florida/Northern strain

[tnpondmanager]

Keep the responses coming, guys, this is very helpful!

[TNBronzeback]

If it were my pond I would like a happy medium. A pond that grew big bass, but could catch on artificials. Florida/Northern strain

Im with ya on that one...if ya cant catch em on typical baits, you just invested alot of time and money into an aquarium.

[tnpondmanager]

Jeremy, when you say Florida/northern strain, are you saying you would want F-1s, which are a cross between Florida- and northern-strain and hit lures better than Floridas but not as well as northerns, or are you saying you would want to stock some each of Floridas and northerns? Just wanting to make sure I understand exactly your preference/vote.

[TNtransplant08]

If you were to put in both Florida strain and northern strain in a pond, would they naturally cross breed eventually and you would end up with F1s anyways? Just curious.

[tnpondmanager]

Yes, they would cross-breed. Some pond owners stock that way intentionally. You likely would not get as many F-1s that way, as fish of a specific sub-species have been observed at times to prefer others of their strain when bedding; but there definitely would be some intermingling.

[Alphahawk]

Walt I don't have a vote but just to relate what a friend of mine did in his 9 acre lake. He went with Florida strain. He wanted big bass and he got them. Now the man is very well off financially and takes his lakes needs seriously...has a fisheries biologist see after it and it's needs. So what one does with their private lake depends on the money. The place is full of trophy bass. I have never fished it and probably never will. Tight records are kept on what is caught. He has to be present if he lets someone fish it.....which is not many folks. But I have heard him remark that they can be tough to catch. He also has copper nose in there....which is why I would love to fish it.


Regards

[TNBronzeback]

I dont want want this to come off as sarcastic or stupid but in all seriousness.....what does bill dance stock in his lake(s)? I dont think i remember him catching a bass under 5-6 pounds on his show....and ofcourse bigger.
Looks like he mainly fishes the same small lake/pond or 2 every show. I think he offers a pond/lake managment program too if i remember right. Just curious what he puts in his ponds.

[Reel Tune]

Jeremy, when you say Florida/northern strain, are you saying you would want F-1s, which are a cross between Florida- and northern-strain and hit lures better than Floridas but not as well as northerns, or are you saying you would want to stock some each of Floridas and northerns? Just wanting to make sure I understand exactly your preference/vote.

Yes, F1's only.

[tnpondmanager]

TNBronzeback, I would hazard a guess that Bill Dance has F-1s in his lake. He does not have a pond management company himself, but there is one out of Alabama that he has allowed to use his name. That company is one of my competitors, as of course is whatever company that is managing the lake Alpha alluded to. I'm a smaller company at present than many of the pond management companies that do business in this area, though one major difference is that I actually live here, whereas they all are coming from out-of-state. Sometimes it seems like they are worried about me, just judging from how zealous they seem to be for keeping me from getting a foothold:)

The reason I would guess F-1s for Bill Dance's lake is because those fish still hit lures reasonably well, but they get too big on average to likely be northern-strain. I managed a 56-acre lake for three years, the first year of which we stocked F-1s (we also did a couple other things to improve the bass fishing); when I took over the lake, according to the owner, the largest bass that had come from it was six pounds. Three years later, in one afternoon and the next morning of fishing, two anglers caught thirteen bass between four and nine pounds each, including six that went between seven and nine. I have photos of several of those fish; some of them are on my website.

[DPowell]

I may have read things wrong so will post to relevant thread. As being a pond owner I want to have the largest fish possible. I do not know the strain in my pond because they where in there all ready when I acquired it. When I acquired it there was no bass over 2 pounds. Now there are a few over 8lbs. The big ones are very hard to catch on lures. I may catch 2 in a year over 7lbs on artificial. Now if I put a live shad on a hook it's like shooting fish in a barrel. I am a striper fisherman so live bait is my preferred method of fishing anyways. I'm not a bass fisherman so I don't care so much about catching them but like the idea more that they are in there. I am a major fishing addict so like anytime I fish I always want to target and try to catch the largest fish. So it goes back to I like the idea that there are big fish in my pond that I have a shot at catching if I fish it. If there was just smaller bass in it I would probably never fish it at all. There are smaller ones in there up to 3-4lbs in the cycle that are easy to catch on artificial. However the big ones are smart old fish. Hard to trick.

[crosshairy]

I would probably go with the F-1 strain just to put some size on them without making them "uncatchable".

Many folks with ponds want to give opportunity to kids, so I'd want the bass to be aggressive enough that I could expect some strikes on lures. That said, I have no problem resorting to live bait to catch bass. The issue would be that I'd probably start using circle hooks to minimize the mortality rate issues with bait swallowing.