Lake Cumberland Delay

[browntrout]

I guess I missed this somewhere it looks like they will not be raising the water level on Lake Cumberland anytime soon. I was really hoping to start fishing there some.

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/24582873/endangered-fish-delays-raising-water-level


Roy

[Travis C.]

Interesting, makes me think of Tellico Dam.

[Saltwaterwalt]

Environmentalist red tape...got to love it. Another halt to the progress of man due to a tiny darter that nobody is ever going to see in the first place.

Species go extinct all the time, do we have to save every last one? Just gets me that this can stop the Corps from filling the lake, yet pollutants continue to pour into our rivers and lakes across the country.

I say fill it up and let the darters sink or swim! :D

[CreekWalker]

This may be a stupid question - but - can someone please explain to me with both Cumberland and Center Hill's eventual rise in lake level after dam repairs are completed......how will it supposedly help improve the trout fishery below?

Does a full lake level allow a more consistent generation schedule? Would constant generation help the trout fishery?

I assume they'll have to pull very little water for years to get the lake levels back up?

[browntrout]

As it stands right now they have to pull the water out as soon as it hits the lake, they don't won't to put extra pressure on the dam. If the dam is fixed they can store a lot of the water and let it out over an extended period of time. Plus with the lake at full pool it gives a larger capacity to pull from during drought years. It just helps stabilize everything where they are not having to get the water out of the lake so fast.

Roy

[TroutFiend]

Good video on Dam control and lake levels.



http://youtu.be/agYj0WPUGQQ


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[Fishbus]

Very cool.

http://youtu.be/agYj0WPUGQQ

[browntrout]

Very cool.

http://youtu.be/agYj0WPUGQQ


Excellent video....thanks for posting this. Very informative.

Roy

[Fishbus]

The original post was by TroutFiend.

My post made it look like it was mine.

I was just trying to compliment as well.

[Jim]

Interesting video, but it seems to have two big mistakes it in. I will caveat my comment by saying I have not modeled temp or dissolved oxygen (DO) in Lake Cumberland personally, but will be surprised if it acts differently than the big reservoirs that I have worked on.

1. The DO is used up in the lower layer due primarily to the decomposition of organic matter that has fallen to the bottom. Lack of mixing of the zones above and below the thermocline results in DO being depleted from the bottom up and restricted to the lower zone. The upper warm water zone has DO due to wind and other currents mixing the water.

The classic cool or coldwater fish squeeze is related to cool water with low or no DO below the thermocline and warm water with DO above it. The striped bass, for example have to choose to be in either cool water without DO or warm water with DO. Neither is a good choice so they get squeezed into a small area where cool water and DO both exist.

The video shows the fish confined below the DO restricted upper zone and needing to travel through it to the surface. I don't think this is really correct.

2. The cold water releases through sluice gate are usually from the lower zone in the lake and as a result can be very low in DO. The sluice water is sprayed into the air to add some oxygen to it, but in general there will be a DO sag associated with sluicing when trying to keep downstream temperatures suitable.

Therefore the comment about the sluicing providing an oxygen boost is opposite typical situation. It provides cold water but low DO water. The spray and mixing is just to get it to minimum DO levels that won't create a dead zone in the sluice water until it has time to naturally circulate an pick up DO at the water surface.

Overall, a neat video but kind of strange that they missed the basic concepts of lake stratification and DO in both the lake and tailwaters.

Jim

[fishfindergeneral]

Jim, the corps opened the sluice gate two years ago on Dale because the DO in the Cumberland river was at an all time low. The Corps seemed to think it would help by adding a lot of DO, more than the normal generation would add.

[Jim]

Jim, the corps opened the sluice gate two years ago on Dale because the DO in the Cumberland river was at an all time low. The Corps seemed to think it would help by adding a lot of DO, more than the normal generation would add.

It all depends on the water quality of where the intake on the upstream side of the dam is. If you don't have DO problems in the cool water on the upstream side near the intake, you wont have them when you sluice the water. You would know better, but I have not heard much about DO problems in Dale Hollow in relation to the trout and other cool/cold water species. In this case, you could sluice to improve DO and temp.

I was commenting on the video which talked about DO problems on the upstream side of the dam. If you have those problems, your downstream discharge will have DO problems. There are all kinds of ways used around the country to add DO back into low DO sluice water including spraying in the air or direct oxygen injection ($$$).

These DO issues can also be in the water that passes through generator and there are more ways to deal with these also. Bottom line - bad water at the intake = bad water in the discharge.

Hope that helps,
Jim

[fishfindergeneral]

That makes sense. Dale generally has good DO deep. We've caught Smallies as deep as 70 ft on the summer.

[Jim]

I know it may not be the favorite idea for this board, but there have been many discussions on the feasibility of changing the discharge temperature from a number of the big dams in the area so that it would be a more natural temperature regime in the tailwaters. This would be done to help out a number of endangered species that could otherwise live in the riverine sections of the lakes below the dams.

Obviously, it would eliminate the trout waters, but done right it may create some amazing smallmouth bass waters.

The costs of engineering, water supply, cooling water for downstream power plants and lost recreation (among other things) are all being balanced against this idea. Time will tell as to how the Cumberland River and its tributaries are actually managed, but there are many completing needs for the water and getting the maximum benefit for all at the lowest cost is the overall goal.

I don't think this will happen soon, but as the area changes over time, trade-offs will need to be made.

Jim

[Fishbus]

There is a DO injection system at Tims Ford Hydro that TVA put in to help the Elk River. You can see it if you drive around the lookout areas.


Billy


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