Who attended the coe meet <'TK><

[tkwalker]

Need a report ... <'TK><

[agelesssone]

TK, I was there but walked out at the halfway mark.

DeLapp spouted the same spiel he gave in KY and what the COE puts out.

My problem with the respondents questions was MOST, but not all, were people giving emotional speeches about having fished the dams for forty years and they want to fish it for the next 40 years.

No one, while I was there,confronted DeLapp with hard facts and figures, mostly emotions and statements about the few PFD's that didn't save lives.

There was no way the public is/was going to deter DeLapp. He was just going through the motions, having a public meeting, telling the plebes what was going to be done, all the while quoting that it was being done "in the name of safety.

You can replay any of the meetings held prior to this and you will have virtually attended this meeting.

The only possibility of the tailrace closings being stopped will have to come from Washington.

This whole fiasco is probably the result of DeLapp wanting to leave something for his legacy. God knows, he will be infamous for acting on this 17 year old edict, where none of his predecessors saw a need to implement it.

So, we are left in the same position we were in before this charade was started. But the time is short now. He'll begin implementing the program in March, to be completed by June 2013.

[agelesssone]

Here is a copy/paste from Doug Markham.......


Ok, the Nashville meeting is history. Probably 350 to 400 folks there tonight at McGavock (maybe more. It was a pretty big place) . A good turnout and lot of passion and good behavior all around. The Corps was cordial and made sure everyone got to talk. I don't think anyone left there tonight happy with the answers we got or any less determined to continue the battle to stop cables and buoys from going down. Safety was the theme and it didn't matter how often the real safety numbers were brought up---the Corps has to protect us---it's all about safety they say. Liability is not the main issue, according to the Corps, but I will never believe that. The 1996 policy was also repeated again and again as a reason why this implementation must take place, but no great answers to why it has never been be adhered to other than other commanders probably didn't want to face mad fishermen. The good news--this is a long way from over. Kentucky County Executives Wade White and Chris Lasher met with the General Walsh of the COE in Washington. With him were Senator Alexander, and Congressman Jim Cooper (TN) and Congressman Ed Whitfield (TN). A press conference was held immediately after the meeting and Senator Alexander and Congressman Whitfield both said they would work to try and get the Corps to work out a compromise where we could continue to fish below dams except during heavy spillage. However, they both noted that it the Corps would not work with them that they would move to have legislation passed forcing a different outcome. This is the last thing they won't to do--that was made clear--but it was also made clear that the COE should work with the wildlife agencies in Tennessee and Kentucky for compromise that lets us keep fishing. TWRA Director Ed Carter told the Corps of Engineers that the agency would continue to enforce life jacket laws below our dams if the COE would work with us and he said he would ask the agency's commission to even make life jacket laws more strict (perhaps not allow inflatables to be worn below dams, as an example) if the COE would work with the agency. I was proud of Ed Carter and TWRA. I was proud of everyone, but from the get go it was obvious it would be a night where many questions would go unanswered, and they were, or evaded, or not answered to satisfaction. The commander was polite and stood on the stage and took the brunt of questions and comments. But most of us have been around long enough to know when we aren't getting real answers to our questions and we mumble in the crowd --but here's the deal. Keep calling your congressmen and letting them know that this is wrong. Because it is. The waters above and below those dams are not the Corps of Engineers. No way did a policy written in 1995 change a few months later n 1996 to deny us access. This is not a safety issue. Look at the numbers. Thanks to everyone for showing up tonight. Thanks to many of you who couldn't be there tonight for making calls. Congressman Black, and Blackburn also had representatives at the meeting in Nashville.

[tkwalker]

Thanks Marv, we knew this up front but at least we have some State Senators pro active ... The key one who is Sen. Alexander ... If it wasn't the pro action of Members of this site the Tennessee side for support would have been short ... I think the Tennessean News article from Sen. Alexander says it all ... And like Col. DeLapp said he takes orders from Washington ...Keep calling and emails ... <'TK><

[MNfisher]

There were not many real clear answers, just kept on saying this was passed in 1996 and that he had nothing to do with it.....just doing his job.

He also kept on saying..."we are not banning fishing in the area. AT THIS TIME you can still fish from the bank." What does he mean "at this time".

I guess the bank will be restricted soon too.

We are a long way from winning, but I think it may be possible.

[Aquaholic6801]

It was made pretty clear that this is going forward...... Period.....and as was stated several times....according to Delapp, it is literally going to take an " Act of Congress" to change the Regulations....according to Delapp he is just complying with a 17 year old Regulation that the previous Commanders did not see fit to implement and its "his" job to make sure the Corps in compliance......Other than that this meeting was a "feel good " measure put on by the Corps to make it appear that they care....Several people and local Guides asked Delapp if he had ever fished in the soon to be restricted areas and his answer was "NO" Several offered to take him, but he declined..... or if he had walked the banks that he is encouraging people to use as an alternative and his answer was "NO"... I for one feel I am 10 times "Safer" in my boat versus having to walk 1/2 to 1 mile on very rocky and uneven terrain and then have to "fight " for a fishing spot.....What a joke and I hope Delapp can live with the fact that he is destroying a way of Life here in Tennessee as well as the livelyhood of a lot of people in the areas surrounding the Dams......

[Travis C.]

He also kept on saying..."we are not banning fishing in the area. AT THIS TIME you can still fish from the bank." What does he mean "at this time".

I guess the bank will be restricted soon too.

It would imagine that once the water is closed off that its far easier to put up a fence along the parking grounds later and probably less noticeable. Similiar to GSP after 9/11, hang a sign and be done with it.

That said.... He will be gone around June anyway.

[Travis C.]

I know we all want to stop this at all cost but has this been brought up:

Once he leaves in June, can the incoming commander remove it and fall back in line with the previous commanders?

[Headhunter]

I was there and Mr Delapp and he is dishonest and in my opinion he is not doing this because he is "forced" to by some regulation or for safety. There is another reason for this, what I am not sure. Ed Carter made a great talk and it is much appreciated that the TWRA is supporting the fisherman. What Delapp is doing is a pile of BS.

[nofish]

I know we all want to stop this at all cost but has this been brought up:

Once he leaves in June, can the incoming commander remove it and fall back in line with the previous commanders?

I don't know the answer to that but I don't see a commander doing that due to the fact they just spent 2.6 million putting in buoys and signs.

[old sailor]

One of the best comments I heard was from a gentleman who told the commander ," you say you are going to consider all alternatives but you also say the barriers will be in place by june 2013." Can't be done! Hopefully there can be serious discussions for the sole purpose of ending or reducing the proposed barriers. There were too many general comments that reduced the effectiveness of the meeting. I had to keep moving in order to understand what was being said and most of it was not effective. Maybe the politicans can get something done ; but the folks in power for the most part are not choosing to pursue the freedom that I love. Looks like a stacked deck folks.

Regards

[Saltwaterwalt]

I know we all want to stop this at all cost but has this been brought up:

Once he leaves in June, can the incoming commander remove it and fall back in line with the previous commanders?

Its been my observation that once the government puts a restriction in place for the "good" of safety, it's about impossible to get reversed. That's why we must not let up on the letter writing to elected officials. After the meeting, I had about a 10 minute chat with the public affairs guy. For those there, you'll remember he was the one at the podium picking out the hands raised to comment. After I told him I was a retired public affairs person from the Army, he actually opened up a bit to talk. My question I directed to him, (I could see talking to Delapp would go nowhere) was that if Delapp wanted to, could he reverse the decision to barricade the dams? I think the PA guy was sincere in his answer of 'no', it comes down from a higher decision and a joint decision among COE officials. That was my thoughts all along that Delapp was the messenger, not the decider. Which goes back to all of us to continue to contact officials who represent us. Everyone has a boss, and if we can get the right officials to dig deep into the root of this, they may, and hopefully, be able to get the COE to use an alternative plan to enforce fishermen to stay out of the spillway during heavy discharge but allow us in when its not. For those who stayed for the entire meeting, I think the better questions came in the end. I personally want to thank Doug Markham for speaking up in the end. He sure has been a leader in trying to head this off at the pass. We need to continue to follow his lead and not let up. I have two grandsons with a third on the way, and I want to be able to take them fishing below the dam one day, not tell them stories how we 'use to fish those waters.' amen

[GO-OKFISHIN]

I was there and like Mike said he mentioned "improving" the areas for bank fishing. I also believe his definition of improving is eliminating. There was a very good case made against his argument for security issues. What about all the boats that are locked through? They have no control over what a boat may have in it so his argument for security is null and void.

I worked for a large Local home builder here in the 90's. They were very successful and were bought out by a large public company from the Northeast. We were told nothing was going to change and everybody believed them. Well 30 days later the memo's started appearing about new policies and procedures and they kept coming. They began to infiltrate the company with their people and brought one person ( I struggle to call him anything else) in whose job was to harass and berate the people they no longer wanted. They eventually ran everybody off and brought their monkeys in. When the upper tier of management had things the way they wanted they got rid of the original goon.

IMO I can't help but think that DeLapp is that guy for the Corp. Doug Markham asked him why nobody else had implemented the policy and he admitted because nobody else wanted to confront this, as he pointed to the crowd. Either he has been instructed to enforce it, take the fall and move on or he has chosen to take it on, be a hero with his superiors and get the H*** out of the State of Tennessee.

He also made it sound like it was HIS decision to put up the physical barriers. He said Commanders in the different regions make their own decisions on how to implement the policy. He cited an example how some regions simply use buoys and signs and sometimes spray paint to mark restricted areas. Hopefully if this decision moves forward and stays in place they will nix the suggestion of the physical barriers and use buoys and signs. I believe he faces a real obstacle obtaining 2.5 million dollars for this..

Wonder how much they paid the one guy that stood up and supported it?

[GO-OKFISHIN]

BTW I couldn't stand that little smirk on the guys face as he talked.

[Headhunter]

Delapp is a joke and I have no respect for him.

[Travis C.]

I believe he faces a real obstacle obtaining 2.5 million dollars for this..

It was my understanding they are already available. If he intends on starting in March and finishing by June then the funds must have been decided on. We just don't know what has been cut yet.

I could be wrong but that was my understanding which has always kept in the back of my mind, "If I just spent 2.6 million on something I am going to use it." :(

[GO-OKFISHIN]

The more I think about it the madder I get. Like Hugh with Southern Woods and Water said, we have a government that is drowning in debt and a country going to H*** and they can still find 2.5 million dollars for something this trivial? I pray for our kids and grand-kids and the people in charge of this country

[sbrison]

Delapp is slicker than any politician on answering questions, here is how it was.


Public: Col Delap, is the sky blue?

Col Delap: Good question... we need to restrict access because of _____ (fill in the blank with safety, liability, compliance).

Like Doug Markham and others stated, we have to keep writing and calling our reps.

[Reel Tune]

Here's what I took from this

The initial cost of the restrictions will be 2.6M dollar, and then you will have maintence on top of that. One question I have is the ACOE works on a budget and that budget doesn’t get approved until September. How can they put up these barriers at this time, I wouldn’t think they have this money lying around.
It sounds like all agencies want to work with him like TWRA with revisiting a PFD law with more strict restrictions like no auto inflate, must be completely fastened, and higher mandatory fines. TWRA also brought up alternatives like barriers during high output times. It sounds like local law enforcement won't enforce/police the policy due to lack of “manpower”, and other issues that they are tasked with.
Other agencies want to work with him on a more economical resolution, but he has already made his mind. Bfish brought up several things like maintaining the barriers, and proper studies that are mandatory that were not performed, and the Col. couldn’t answer any of his questions. He also brought up about the process of policy change without proper assessment that also couldn’t be answered. There have been no meetings with local leaders, and no meetings with Mayor Dean with the ACOE.
ACOE couldn’t answer how many of the 8 deaths below the dams came from people on the bank, and one guy mentioned that he has rescued 3 people personally from below dams that come from the bank. If he was restricted from these areas then nobody would be there to possibly rescue these people.
Impact studies have not been performed, and it sounds like the only studies that have been done are those directly from the ACOE with hydraulics, and initial cost of barriers. A study taskforce team with all effected agencies has not been created and proper research performed.
An idea of a waiver was brought up when purchasing a fishing license, or with boater registration. When you buy your license you sign a waiver if you want to fish below the dams, or have a $2-$5 fee per license and sign a waiver, or dam stamp.
There was great representation by local law enforcement, TWRA, Tennessee Wildlife Federation, BASS Nation, Southern Woods and Water, Fishin’ Affliction, Local Guides that have raised families by fishing below these dams for the past 40 years.
There was a veteran talking about lightning strikes, and stupid people. (I thought he actually had some good comments).
I’ve drawn a blank on the name (sorry) but at Logan’s before the meeting he brought up a good point about foot access below the dams, and it was also brought up in the meeting. For someone who is older, less agile, or possibly handicap, heck for that matter (anyone). Bank access is just dangerous in most areas, from some of the individuals, to slick, uneven, snakes, or spiders in the rocks. I would feel safer fishing from a watercraft where there is a safe space between me and the guy next to me with the only real hazards being a tripping hazard on the deck of the boat.
There were many issues brought up from enforcement, harvest for a hatchery by TWRA to produce more stocking fish for our waters, to over population, and the wellbeing of fish, diseases etc.


Jeremy

[nofish]

Here's what I took from this

There were many issues brought up from enforcement, harvest for a hatchery by TWRA to produce more stocking fish for our waters, to over population, and the wellbeing of fish, diseases etc.[/FONT]


Jeremy


Would there be a boom in fish populations, fish sizes, etc in the next few years if these restrictions are put into place?

[Reel Tune]

From who I was speaking with it sounds like it could become an issue with over population of fish, then stunted growth, then followed by diseases.

"I am a catch and release angler except for a crappie, or a shellcracker trip a year, with one King/Mahi Mahi trip thrown in there". I do understand that there needs to be harvest and am all for it as long as you are doing it within the law, and ethically. I know there needs to be some fish kept and I'm for that, I just don't like to see rare or trophy fish harvested or excessive ammounts. There have seen research on catch and release only, or no harvest and it can be bad for our waters.

Ok, back on subject, sorry for the rant, it's just a passionate subject for me:)

Jeremy

[tkwalker]

T.K.,


I believe that you and Doug are correct in asking, “have you written your congressman this week?”


The Corps personnel at every level have made it exceedingly clear, that they don’t care what we, or our legislators think. I too believe that there is an agenda beneath the surface, as the safety rationale is statistically so feeble.



Having now had our say, (as it may seem to the COE) keep in mind that legislators as a group, have a very short memory, and practice ‘’What-have-you-done-for-me-lately”. (Excuse my cynicism.) Without the sportsmen, and travel and tourism industry in this for the long haul, the COE will get exactly what they want. Once in place, congressional action to reverse the action will require exponential effort.



While hopeful, I see this as just the beginning. It will likely take more face-to-face lobbying by concerned constituents with their legislators. It may take a grass roots Political Action Committee (PAC) to raise funds for legal / lobby professionals. A court injunction is not out of the question. But what I am certain of is this; if as a group, we quit calling, stop sending email, or fax transmitting letters to our representatives in Washington, this fight will be forgotten.

[robhal11]

As, Old Sailor said there were alot of comments that meant nothing to Delap and were not to the point. He has already put this in play and as many later on said the only way this is going to stop is through our continued effort of contacting our Elected Officals, from the local to US level. We have to keep the pressure on them or the will buckle under. The way acted he has never or does not care anything on this earth about fishing.

[BMelton]

Why are things of this nature not on a ballot. Our tax dollars pay everything the corp does, so why does our opinion not count. Just another way tax payers are getting screwed.

[Dakota]

Delapp did not impress me. He didnt want to be there at all. He was there to say oh yes we had a meeting. Blah Blah. This guy has never fished below a dam in his life. Probably has never fished at all. It seems this is nothing but a "Power Trip". Really security and safety give me a break. I was impressed with the turn out. I hope Doug Markham is right in saying this isnt done yet.

[wormdunker]

I don't think that he faces an obstacle getting the 2.6m to do this. The Federal govt. throws around money like it grows on trees. I don't think he will have any trouble getting the funds. What we the people need to do is to get this policy/order changed, and that is going to require us to FLOOD the Washington offices with calls, emails, mail, etc. WE CANNOT LET UP NOW! I was there last night, and was pretty disgusted at this mans' attitude, even though he took the heat pretty well. We need to TURN THE HEAT UP at this point and as Scott Morris emphasized last night- the answer lies in contacting and bugging the crap out of our reps in Washington The squeaky wheel will get the grease. Let's squeak until it HURTS THEIR EARS. Don't let up, folks.

[jaycee]

A friend and I attended. Was exactly as I expected. No surprises. Orders are orders as are regs, until changed. Must get changes.

[Pookie]

Why are things of this nature not on a ballot. Our tax dollars pay everything the corp does, so why does our opinion not count. Just another way tax payers are getting screwed.

Under our system of government, we elect representatives to speak for us. In the big scheme of things, this is not a big issue. However, if enough fishermen get riled up over the issue, it becomes an issue to our reps. I was talking to a politician last night, and he described it best when he stated that mercury in a cup is pretty manageable, but once you spill the cup, it is nearly impossible to contain the mercury again.

Originally, I claimed that this matter would not become the law of the land until a judge decided so. I stand by that, with one simple addition; an act of Congress. Alexander can submit the bill, and who is going to vote against it? Does anybody think that the Congressman from Iowa or Delaware care what Tennessee fishermen do? Lamar can make it happen for us, if he will.

[CreekWalker]

Under our system of government, we elect representatives to speak for us. In the big scheme of things, this is not a big issue. However, if enough fishermen get riled up over the issue, it becomes an issue to our reps. I was talking to a politician last night, and he described it best when he stated that mercury in a cup is pretty manageable, but once you spill the cup, it is nearly impossible to contain the mercury again.

Originally, I claimed that this matter would not become the law of the land until a judge decided so. I stand by that, with one simple addition; an act of Congress. Alexander can submit the bill, and who is going to vote against it? Does anybody think that the Congressman from Iowa or Delaware care what Tennessee fishermen do? Lamar can make it happen for us, if he will.

I hope a bill is drafted and everyone votes for it. I really do. The unfortunate truth is that a Congressman in Iowa or Delaware does not care what fishermen in Tennessee do - in fact - they'd only expose themselves to risk. If they signed a bill that amended these "safety" rules and another accident was to happen below a dam the spotlight will be on them.

The revenue from almost 900,000 anglers buying fishing licenses in Tennessee does not benefit Iowa or Delaware?

I wonder if the vendor awarded the $2.6 million contract for buoy installation paid a referral fee?

I realize this conspiracy theory is not accurate - I'm just venting.

[fishbait61832]

I don't know the answer to that but I don't see a commander doing that due to the fact they just spent 2.6 million putting in buoys and signs.



Have they already closed Cordell dam off?