Dam Restriction update From Doug Markham

[creeksmallie]

I have learned today that the "public" meeting the Corps intends to hold as it concerns boat restrictions below dams will be to TELL US WHAT THE NEW RESTRICTIONS will be. If it is a public hearing or meeting, I hope we all gather in numbers they have never seen before to tell them that THIS IS OUR STATE. I will keep you posted. Look for Mike Organ to have an article in Thursday's Tennessean.

[j19bill]

So basically their just going to tell us what they are going to do and to hell with what we think ...

I see all fazes of the government are the same.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[Catch & Release]

Here is the # to Lamar Alexander's office in Washington:202 224 4944
I believe he is the only one who can stop this. Everyone please give him a call and let them know you thoughts on this issue, because I believe after tomorrow it will be all over but the crying.....

[fisher01]

Here's Lieutenant Colonel James A. DeLapp Commander


Brigadier General Margaret W. Burcham
Commander and Division Engineer
Great Lakes and Ohio River Division

U.S.Army Engineer Division,
Great Lakes & Ohio River Division
ATTN: Public Affairs Office
550 Main Street, Room 10524
Cincinnati, Ohio 45202-3222
(513) 684-3010
http://www.lrd.usace.army.mil/

Time is running out, here is who the Lieutenant Colonel reports to. We need our voices heard.

[Mnfishingbum]

Where and when is this meeting?

[Travis C.]

Where and when is this meeting?

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (Dec.11, 2012) - On Dec. 13, 2012, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers will announce its change in operation to comply with existing policy on Restricted Access to Hazardous Waters around Corps Dams. The announcement follows a week that saw productive meetings between the Nashville District Commander, Lt. Col. James DeLapp, and other Corps officials with members of the Tennessee and Kentucky congressional delegations and other key stakeholders.

WHO: U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Nashville District

WHAT: Announce its plans to implement Corps policy on Restricted Access to Hazardous Water around Corps Dams

WHEN: Thursday, Dec. 13, 2012 at 1-2 p.m. CST

WHERE: ViaTeleconference

[Travis C.]

Not much time for public input or gathering to show support via telephone for an hour... :cool:

I guess get ready to hear what they decided.

[tkwalker]

Did you see the segment on CH 4 tonight at 6:30 (12-12-12) ... May be back on at 10:00 .... <'TK>< :confused:

[Alphahawk]

Yep saw it. I just hope this gets stopped. I am sick to death of "Big Brother".

Regards

[Greasy Ham]

Isn't there something about waterways being public domain or something like that which would not allow this? I mean it's technically a river. Not a lake on private land.
I'm grasping at straws I know.

[agelesssone]

A friend, who is ex-military, says that all this is, is a military person leaving himself a "legacy", making his mark as it were, disregarding the wishes of the constituents of the state of Tennessee because they have no bearing on his actions nor are of any consequence to him, as he is not an elected official and cannot be held to harm for his actions.

Maybe the next commander of the Corps of Engineers can/will retract this moron's actions. We can only hope so because this action of restricting access to the immediate tail waters seems to be a foregone conclusion at this point in time.

I note that the TWRA officers on this page are decrying this action also, but in the next breath, they will be the ones issuing citations to boaters who venture into the "no boating" zone. If they are really serious about not wanting these restrictions, maybe they'll be "too busy" to write citations for these transgressions.....much the same as they don't seem to care to write citations to illegal fishermen below the dams who keep everything that comes ashore in their castnets.

If I have to pay taxes and register and number a canoe just because I put a "TROLLING MOTOR" on it, I'd like to see some enforcement of the laws already on the books concerning the castnetting crowd.

I'm done venting, thank you for reading!

[Alphahawk]

A friend, who is ex-military, says that all this is, is a military person leaving himself a "legacy", making his mark as it were, disregarding the wishes of the constituents of the state of Tennessee because they have no bearing on his actions nor are of any consequence to him, as he is not an elected official and cannot be held to harm for his actions.

Maybe the next commander of the Corps of Engineers can/will retract this moron's actions. We can only hope so because this action of restricting access to the immediate tail waters seems to be a foregone conclusion at this point in time.

I note that the TWRA officers on this page are decrying this action also, but in the next breath, they will be the ones issuing citations to boaters who venture into the "no boating" zone. If they are really serious about not wanting these restrictions, maybe they'll be "too busy" to write citations for these transgressions.....much the same as they don't seem to care to write citations to illegal fishermen below the dams who keep everything that comes ashore in their castnets.

If I have to pay taxes and register and number a canoe just because I put a "TROLLING MOTOR" on it, I'd like to see some enforcement of the laws already on the books concerning the castnetting crowd.

I'm done venting, thank you for reading!


Having a 7 year career in the Army.....then another 23 years working with a major defense firm and working with and around the Army...you come to learn once a regulation is made it is very hard to overturn. Doug Markham mentioned this also. It does not matter how stupid a regulation is once it is made it is done. My hope is that due to all the publicity that someone above that O5 has told him to drop it. If enough pressure was to be put on his superiors...say the O6's and General ranking officers they could tell him to squash it and I can assure he would....that is if he ever wanted to be promoted to O6. Makes me wonder though is this idea strictly from Lt. Colonel DeLapp...or someone above him. I guess we will find out tomorrow who's idea this is and what it will entail. Then our work will begin if the tailraces are closed to fishing. There is no doubt that we as sportsman will make such a ruckus that it will get somebody's attention much higher than a Lt. Colonel.

Regards

[tkwalker]

Having a 7 year career in the Army.....then another 23 years working with a major defense firm and working with and around the Army...you come to learn once a regulation is made it is very hard to overturn. Doug Markham mentioned this also. It does not matter how stupid a regulation is once it is made it is done. My hope is that due to all the publicity that someone above that O5 has told him to drop it. If enough pressure was to be put on his superiors...say the O6's and General ranking officers they could tell him to squash it and I can assure he would....that is if he ever wanted to be promoted to O6. Makes me wonder though is this idea strictly from Lt. Colonel DeLapp...or someone above him. I guess we will find out tomorrow who's idea this is and what it will entail. Then our work will begin if the tailraces are closed to fishing. There is no doubt that we as sportsman will make such a ruckus that it will get somebody's attention much higher than a Lt. Colonel.


Regards

Thanks Alpha great post ... Folks I Have kept Doug Markham abreast of FTI post and our support ... Please keep posting and sending protest to our political gaurdians, Some better than others !!! .. I really don't think TWRA will police any of these new restrictions... <'TK>< .. To much federal control !! ... I think Alpha hit it dead on !!! :(

[Alphahawk]

In doing some research on this I came across this article. http://www.yankton.net/articles/2012/03/15/community/doc4f616f057c706589513365.txt

I tell you guys not only our politicians not able to do any constructive work...but they are allowing rules and regulations to be made that serve no purpose other than control. This is really disturbing.


Regards

[jad2t]

I'm absolutely disgusted by this. I planned to spend a lot of time bank fishing the OHD generation starting next week now that the semester as ended. As rough of a semester as it was, I was really looking forward to enjoying what I enjoy most. Apparently starting tomorrow we will no longer be allowed.

Merv brings up a great point. I will be outraged at the TWRA if they decide to start ticketing people for fishing below the dams meanwhile ignoring any report they get of illegal immigrants keeping everything in their cast nets. IF they support our opinion on this, as they say they do, they should just "not notice" me fishing below the dam next week.

[MNfisher]

I'm absolutely disgusted by this. I planned to spend a lot of time bank fishing the OHD generation starting next week now that the semester as ended. As rough of a semester as it was, I was really looking forward to enjoying what I enjoy most. Apparently starting tomorrow we will no longer be allowed.

Merv brings up a great point. I will be outraged at the TWRA if they decide to start ticketing people for fishing below the dams meanwhile ignoring any report they get of illegal immigrants keeping everything in their cast nets. IF they support our opinion on this, as they say they do, they should just "not notice" me fishing below the dam next week.

I don't believe that anywhere did it mention about any bank fishing access. And if you read the article that Alpha posted about Yankton, SD. They closed the area off to boats and not bank fisherman. I am very certain that any closure will be only including boats. Which I still feel is ridiculous. I guess we will find out today.

[CreekWalker]

I'm absolutely disgusted by this. I planned to spend a lot of time bank fishing the OHD generation starting next week now that the semester as ended. As rough of a semester as it was, I was really looking forward to enjoying what I enjoy most. Apparently starting tomorrow we will no longer be allowed.

Merv brings up a great point. I will be outraged at the TWRA if they decide to start ticketing people for fishing below the dams meanwhile ignoring any report they get of illegal immigrants keeping everything in their cast nets. IF they support our opinion on this, as they say they do, they should just "not notice" me fishing below the dam next week.

If you are going to try to beat up the gub'ment know that they are restricting boats not bank fisherman.

I believe that agelsssone said "illegal fisherman" not "illegal immigrants". Not to speak for him but perhaps he was referring to illegal activities such as exceeding bag limits via cast nets (among other tactics, presumably).

[browntrout]

NASHVILLE, Tenn. – The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Nashville District is finalizing plans to implement 24/7 restricted waterborne access to hazardous waters immediately upstream and downstream of all Corps-owned locks and dams, flood control dams and multipurpose dams on the Cumberland River and its adjoining tributaries. This action moves the Nashville District into full compliance with Corps regulations.

Public information meetings are planned for Paducah, Ky., Nashville, Tenn., Cookeville, Tenn. and Somerset, Ky. in January 2013. These meetings will allow the public to respond to the proposed implementation plans. Detailed information for each meeting’s time and location will be provided to the public as soon as they are finalized.

The restricted areas will be the minimum area allowed per Corps regulations upstream and downstream of locks, dams, and power plant facilities. All forms of water access within the restricted areas will be prohibited including boating, swimming and wading. The Corps continues to allow bank fishing in all areas that were previously approved, including areas adjacent to some restricted areas. The restricted areas will be small areas compared to the entire tailwater below the dams on federal property. Fishing and boating will still be allowed in these non-restricted areas.

“We understand the tightened restricted areas in the Nashville District may be unpopular, but it is necessary for the district to enforce a more restrictive policy that complies more effectively with U.S. Army Corps of Engineers’ ER 1130-2-520, Chapter 10,” said Freddie Bell, chief of the Natural Resource Management Branch. “The increased restriction will also provide the highest level of public safety and address physical security issues.”

Since 2009, three fatalities, one serious injury and 10 near misses/rescues have occurred in the hazardous waters immediately downstream of dams on the Cumberland River and its adjoining tributaries. Life jacket wear has been ineffective in these areas, since all of the victims who drowned were wearing a life jacket.

The immediate hazardous water areas above and below dams in the Nashville District are best described as industrial areas that pose a high level of risk for the public because of the hydroelectric, spilling, sluicing and lock operations that are often present or begin with little or no notice. Such water releases can change a dry riverbed or calm waters into a life-threatening situation within seconds that can swamp, capsize and trap boats and people in turbulent waters.

“We want the public to understand safety is the Agency’s highest priority,” said Bell. “The tailwater directly below a dam is a high risk area and fishing in this area is a high risk activity. As we comply with Corps regulations by restricting these areas, we are also keeping the public safe.”

For more information, on the “Restricted Areas Around Dams” please go to http://www.lrn.usace.army.mil/pao/news/boating_restrictions_near_dams.htm.

The public can obtain news, updates and information from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Nashville District on the district’s website at www.lrn.usace.army.mil, on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/nashvillecorps and on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/nashvillecorps.



Read more: http://www.dvidshub.net/news/99240/nashville-district-announces-plans-tighten-restrictions-around-corps-dams#.UMn2zqXd7ww#ixzz2Ewm2jmEZ

[Travis C.]

Merv brings up a great point. I will be outraged at the TWRA if they decide to start ticketing people for fishing below the dams meanwhile ignoring any report they get of illegal immigrants keeping everything in their cast nets. IF they support our opinion on this, as they say they do, they should just "not notice" me fishing below the dam next week.

Best I remember from the last TWRC (the commission that approves the TWRA regs/laws) they voted to not enforce and stay out of the upcoming Corps changes leaving it up to them to police.

[browntrout]

THey also posted this link:
http://www.lrn.usace.army.mil/pao/news/boating_restrictions_near_dams.htm

If you look at the picture close you might recognize that person. I wont say who it is I will let him identify himself if he wishes.

Roy

[Travis C.]

Some of these areas are wading friendly or not very deep on low water. If it was such a safety concer then why can't the "zone" be in effect when the facility is operating and when its not be open?

In reality none are dangerous if its not running.

[Jim]

All of the site restricted areas are on the website also.

Here is Old Hickory;

http://www.lrn.usace.army.mil/pao/Boundaries/121212-A-CE999-009.jpg

And Center Hill (Caney Fork River)

http://www.lrn.usace.army.mil/pao/Boundaries/121212-A-CE999-002.jpg

Really bummer at Old Hickory.

Jim

[jad2t]

If you are going to try to beat up the gub'ment know that they are restricting boats not bank fisherman.

I believe that agelsssone said "illegal fisherman" not "illegal immigrants". Not to speak for him but perhaps he was referring to illegal activities such as exceeding bag limits via cast nets (among other tactics, presumably).

Many times those two terms are synonymous so I may have gotten ahead of myself due to what I personally have witnessed over the years but we won't go there...

As far as only restricting boaters, that makes their argument of our "safety" even more ridiculous. Are bank fishermen not at risk if they act foolishly during generation? Sure they are. You can't pass laws to eliminate stupid. They even said in the article Roy posted that since 2009 there have been 3 deaths, 1 serious injury, and 10 near misses. While each event is tragic and I hate to hear someone died or was injured, those numbers aren't that staggering. It's not like someone was dying every week from fishing below a dam. Those numbers are not even remotely serious enough to justify a measure like this.

[Jim]

Here is a strange fact. The policy that they are getting in line with was established on November 29, 1996. If it was so important, do you think it may have been dealt within the past 16 years?

Jim

[Travis C.]

From their Q&A portion on the link:

Q16. We have a number of petition signatures against these restrictions. Will the Corps change its decision based on public opposition?

Answer: No, regulatory guidance requires us to establish restricted areas for the hazardous waters around dams. The Corps understands this change in policy may be unpopular for some visitors but public safety is paramount regarding all project operations.

[spottedbass]

The restriction above Old Hickory really stinks. That was a great bank for catching smallmouth and spotted bass.

No more fishing the "pond" or the water fall at Center Hill.

[Alphahawk]

It sucks all the way around. Strange how the two videos posted on their site about incidents are private videos...you can't view them...LOL. I can't imagine never fishing the pond again at Center Hill. Of course the Army has never used logic. The percentage of lake deaths is almost 100 times the deaths below dams. It is going to be incumbent on us to become activist and do as Americans have done for 200 years when things get outrageous...take it to the streets...in this case take it to the dams. I am sure we can get literally a thousand boaters...kayakers...to show up below Old Hickory.....in the Pond on the Caney. This will come down to a battle of will between us and the Army. I think in mass this is something we can cause a lot of discomfort for politicians if we stick together and have the will to see it through. All people need to understand that this is just not about us fishing where we want...this one step could lead to many stupid regs and rules that would impact everyones life....livelihood....in some fashion. It is time to say enough is enough.




Regards

[tkwalker]

""Thanks for keeping me updated. This guy is not going away. Please tell your readers that TW RA is not going to enforce this law. Will be totally up to the Corps of Engineers. This commander has been told that By the director."

[browntrout]

It sucks all the way around. Strange how the two videos posted on their site about incidents are private videos...you can't view them...LOL. I can't imagine never fishing the pond again at Center Hill. Of course the Army has never used logic. The percentage of lake deaths is almost 100 times the deaths below dams. It is going to be incumbent on us to become activist and do as Americans have done for 200 years when things get outrageous...take it to the streets...in this case take it to the dams. I am sure we can get literally a thousand boaters...kayakers...to show up below Old Hickory.....in the Pond on the Caney. This will come down to a battle of will between us and the Army. I think in mass this is something we can cause a lot of discomfort for politicians if we stick together and have the will to see it through. All people need to understand that this is just not about us fishing where we want...this one step could lead to many stupid regs and rules that would impact everyones life....livelihood....in some fashion. It is time to say enough is enough.


I have a black riverhawk ready to go. Lets just set a date!!!

Roy



Regards

[Alphahawk]

""Thanks for keeping me updated. This guy is not going away. Please tell your readers that TW RA is not going to enforce this law. Will be totally up to the Corps of Engineers. This commander has been told that By the director."

tk....how many guides wil be impacted at Cordell Hull that guide for Stripers...or other species...will be affected by this? I am assuming we are talking about a lot of lost revenue for them...not to mention local hotels...restaurants and so on.


Regards

[tkwalker]

tk....how many guides wil be impacted at Cordell Hull that guide for Stripers...or other species...will be affected by this? I am assuming we are talking about a lot of lost revenue for them...not to mention local hotels...restaurants and so on.


Regards

I can name you six right off the top of my head .. Plus I am sure there are more that I don't know since I retired ... <'TK><

[Travis C.]

It's going to really jam up the Caney on normal nice days much less the ones in summer for wading, canoer's and boating people in that top 5 miles to Happy.

[Jdkxtreme]

All of the site restricted areas are on the website also.

Here is Old Hickory;

http://www.lrn.usace.army.mil/pao/Boundaries/121212-A-CE999-009.jpg

And Center Hill (Caney Fork River)

http://www.lrn.usace.army.mil/pao/Boundaries/121212-A-CE999-002.jpg

Really bummer at Old Hickory.

Jim


If I oil up an 8' rod with some hot sauce reel oil can I tie to the bouy's and throw a super spook 800'? lol

[old sailor]

[QUOTE=browntrout;27454]THey also posted this link:
http://www.lrn.usace.army.mil/pao/news/boating_restrictions_near_dams.htm

If you look at the picture close you might recognize that person. I wont say who it is I will let him identify himself if he wishes.

Just saw that pic. Looks a lot like me. Those days may soon be over. I am deeply depressed.http://fishingtn.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Alphahawk]

As some say no news is good news. If there was a teleconference today no one knows when..what time...or where it took place or even if..it took place. All that has come out today so far is the release earlier that said what they had already said before. Now the next "deadline" is set for mid January. Could this be because we are getting the attention of some people who can stop this. I don't know but I just find it odd that it keeps getting pushed down the road. If the Corp thinks we will not be interested in this in the dead of Winter...they sure don't know sportsman.


Regards

[Alphahawk]

[QUOTE=browntrout;27454]THey also posted this link:
http://www.lrn.usace.army.mil/pao/news/boating_restrictions_near_dams.htm

If you look at the picture close you might recognize that person. I wont say who it is I will let him identify himself if he wishes.

Just saw that pic. Looks a lot like me. Those days may soon be over. I am deeply depressed.http://fishingtn.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Fish it while you can...and catch one for me.

Regards

[browntrout]

[QUOTE=browntrout;27454]THey also posted this link:
http://www.lrn.usace.army.mil/pao/news/boating_restrictions_near_dams.htm

If you look at the picture close you might recognize that person. I wont say who it is I will let him identify himself if he wishes.

Just saw that pic. Looks a lot like me. Those days may soon be over. I am deeply depressed.http://fishingtn.com/images/icons/icon9.gif


Old sailor you can jump in the boat with me because I will still go into that area. Let me know when you want to go. I will provide the ham sandwiches.

Roy

[cat-tales]

When I was a Charter Captain on the Great Lakes we had a similiar situation about 20 years ago...................the Coast Guard decided to create a "restricted zone" in an area used by their vessels to dock. The area (north of Port Huron, Lake Huron) was also a very popular walleye fishing area, and while the fishermen were never a problem for the Coast Guard, they just decided they needed this area to themselves.

Our DNR sided with the fishermen, as have the TWRA in this case.........and here was their suggestion.

If the burden of enforcement is left to the Coast Guard ( the Corps in this case) , any citation/ticket , etc., will have to be enforced in a local court, if the TWRA will not prosecute, the citation / ticket is more or less worthless.

In reading the Corps statement regarding " Compliance with poicy in other areas " , I'm wondering if this is just a "CYA" on their part to head off any potential responsibility claim in case of a tragedy.

I really don't know if the Corps has a " restricted area police department".

Gary

[old sailor]

[QUOTE=old sailor;27478]


Old sailor you can jump in the boat with me because I will still go into that area. Let me know when you want to go. I will provide the ham sandwiches.

Roy
I like ham thanks, they are not getting rid of me easily. I was fishing that sluice gate water in sept and a white hat bull horned me from the upper ramp. When I went over he said they did not want anyone going past the blue life vests required signs when sluice was open. I said okay (sorry), he said no need to be you were doing fine. He was very nice and I felt that was resonable and was about as far as I could go and fish effectively. Looks like the blue signs may be cutoff point for center hill. I have seen folks in small boats go in that rough water with no life jackets on, not smart! Warm regards

[cat-tales]

Forgot to add,regarding the area that the Coast Guard had restricted 20 years ago, everyone just kept fishing the area as usual, and there was never any action taken by the Coast Guard.

[Fish Whisperer]

Welcome to the Nanny States of America......



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[browntrout]

I dont know how many of you saw the channel 5 special on this but it seems as if the Corps is 1 step ahead of us. Instead on anyone enforcing this law they will string buoys across the river to keep people out. I guess will will have to come up with another idea. I just hate to think that the pond will be totally off limits even when the are not generating. Sad day!!!!!

[Alphahawk]

I dont know how many of you saw the channel 5 special on this but it seems as if the Corps is 1 step ahead of us. Instead on anyone enforcing this law they will string buoys across the river to keep people out. I guess will will have to come up with another idea. I just hate to think that the pond will be totally off limits even when the are not generating. Sad day!!!!!


Just watched that news report on the News 5 website. Two million dollars to string buoys across the tail waters. Those would not keep out a kayaker but would keep out a boat...that is if what they put up is like what was shown in the video. Sad day indeed. They are going to hold public meetings..not to let us have input...but to tell us what the changes are. No need to have a meeting for that. Why have a meeting to inform us to what we already know. Very depressing day.


Regards

[tkwalker]

What gets me is that the area they have chained off is in front of the spill ways ... On a day in day out basis I thought the Turbine Bays were their issue for Safety .... Give me a break ... Big Brother taking over ...

bd, can't the Governor stop this ??? <'TK><

[bfish]

Bouys will start becoming missing within 2 years, especially after high water cause they will flush downstream.

[tkwalker]

Bouys will start becoming missing within 2 years, especially after high water cause they will flush downstream.

I have seen log jams on Cordel Hull back up all the way to the end of the downstream lock entrance ... They are chaining off everything past this point except the entrance ... what they are going find is that the Lock entrance will be blocked in the Spring ... The LT. Col ... Doesn't know the Dynamic power of Middle Tennessee Water Ways ... Why do you think TVA became in exsistance in 1933 ... It wasn't for the Hydros '''It was flood control ...

These cables that series the bouys will withstand any current Not sure about the loading of trees and logs ...

Well one thing will happen ...as you know there was concern about the skippies being caught at the Dams and transported out of state ... That will stop !! <'TK><

[nofish]

No b.s. i really think we should spread the word across the internet, to our friends, and flood Facebook, and contact the media and get organized and have a massive on the water below a middle tennessee dam in your boat protest. The only downside would be if we had several hundred boats on the water and someone got injured proving their point. They could also pull something sheisty and have an unannounced massive release and say see we told y'all it was dangerous. I would love to do this and make some shirts that say "F" the CORP or put the corp logo on tshirt with a no smoking sign around it. We should also support Flipper in his fight with them over the corp screwing him in a boundary dispute. If we showed up in force like say below old hickory dam we would shutdown commercial traffic due to the sheer number of boats. That could be a tactic huh? Have a demonstration once or twice a week or month and shutdown commercial navigation? To do that we might have to do it on the lake side in the channel and only put in at ramps with no locking gates cause if we did that at the dam they could just lock us out with the gates.

[tkwalker]

No b.s. i really think we should spread the word across the internet, to our friends, and flood Facebook, and contact the media and get organized and have a massive on the water below a middle tennessee dam in your boat protest. The only downside would be if we had several hundred boats on the water and someone got injured proving their point. They could also pull something sheisty and have an unannounced massive release and say see we told y'all it was dangerous. I would love to do this and make some shirts that say "F" the CORP or put the corp logo on tshirt with a no smoking sign around it. We should also support Flipper in his fight with them over the corp screwing him in a boundary dispute. If we showed up in force like say below old hickory dam we would shutdown commercial traffic due to the sheer number of boats. That could be a tactic huh? Have a demonstration once or twice a week or month and shutdown commercial navigation? To do that we might have to do it on the lake side in the channel and only put in at ramps with no locking gates cause if we did that at the dam they could just lock us out with the gates.

Don't have any problem with any of this except one thing ... We really don't need to be running around in a protest and showing the rest of the world on National News how uncouth, that a bunch of Redneck Tennesseeans, in an honest protest, wearing Tee shirts Saying "F" the Corps ...

Flipper gets what he deservers... THIS IS A PUBLIC ACCESS !! .... He and his Tourney goons have controlled that little part of the world to long !! .... Anyone except the in crowd on a tourney day is treated like poop from a whale at 10,000 feet below sea level ... I witnessed a young couple with small children treated this way one morning while launching a boat one weekend ... Also many more testimonials from long time fishermen of this area including myself .. ... <'TK><

[Travis C.]

Flipper gets what he deservers... THIS IS A PUBLIC ACCESS !! .... He and his Tourney goons have controlled that little part of the world to long !! .... Anyone except the in crowd on a tourney day is treated like poop from a whale at 10,000 feet below sea level ... I witnessed a young couple with small children treated this way one morning while launching a boat one weekend ... Also many more testimonials from long time fishermen of this area including myself .. ... <'TK><

I agree with that statement TK, he gets what he deserves.

Several years ago, I was going to go fishing and put in there to fish above 109. They had some tourney that was going to go off that day. I asked inside about what all was going on and they asked me to used to ramp across the bridge so it wouldn't bottle neck everything. That way everybody can get in the water in time. Haven't been back or done businesss there since.

[Travis C.]

The only problem I see with protesting like that is:

You seen on the map of the boundry's it listed the Dam, the new off limits mark and the tailwater property line. Since they have absolute control you don't want to piss them off to the point of saying, "okay have your public water by the way it starts here now".

In some places that would be a lot of water lost.

[nofish]

Don't have any problem with any of this except one thing ... We really don't need to be running around in a protest and showing the rest of the world on National News how uncouth, that a bunch of Redneck Tennesseeans, in an honest protest, wearing Tee shirts Saying "F" the Corps ...

Flipper gets what he deservers... THIS IS A PUBLIC ACCESS !! .... He and his Tourney goons have controlled that little part of the world to long !! .... Anyone except the in crowd on a tourney day is treated like poop from a whale at 10,000 feet below sea level ... I witnessed a young couple with small children treated this way one morning while launching a boat one weekend ... Also many more testimonials from long time fishermen of this area including myself .. ... <'TK><

I agree f the corp is inappropriate and everyone thinks us southerners are rednecks anyway and that would hinder the cause. Everytime i see a Southerner on national tv they always seem to be a poor ambassador for the south.

I've never had anything but good dealings with flipper. The only time i ever go there is in the winter and there's only a few boats in the parking lot. I've never been on tournament days though. He's never been nothing but nice to me and the people i fish with. I've always thought it was comical that he calls me and everyone else "HON" like honey.

[lupanfreitag]

This entire action is a darn shame. The reasoning, the posturing, the allure of public safety and "physical security" is absolutely absurd. It makes me wish that those that are evevated to positions of power and influence would take a few moments to reflect on the fact that we (the little people) below are holding up the entire structure on which they stand. Liberty, freedom, common sense are the foundations of democracy- not arbitration and myopicity and vanity.

Makes me physically ill.

[bd-]

bd, can't the Governor stop this ??? <'TK>< [/I][/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]

No, I don't think so. The tailwaters are federal property under the jurisdiction of the Corps of Engineers - state political figures like the Governor don't have much authority to tell the feds and the U.S. Army what to do on their land.

Unfortunately, the only possible way to impede this new policy from being implemented will be to put pressure on the Corps to change their minds. It's a long shot but we need to try.

bd

[tkwalker]

No, I don't think so. The tailwaters are federal property under the jurisdiction of the Corps of Engineers - state political figures like the Governor don't have much authority to tell the feds and the U.S. Army what to do on their land.

Unfortunately, the only possible way to impede this new policy from being implemented will be to put pressure on the Corps to change their minds. It's a long shot but we need to try.

bd

Folks bd is right ... It is time for everyone to ban together on this sight and send some emails ... here is a starter and address.. Modify if needed ... <'TK>< " GET ER DONE !!!" http://www.fishingtn.com/showthread.php?t=5937

[Pookie]

Sadly, Lamar Alexander has let everyone down on this matter. In governmental matters, look no further than the money, and who controls it. Lamar's meetings with the corps, his requests from the corps, and his responses to you guys was nothing more than political posturing. In a back room conferrence, all he had to do, was refuse funding for this issue and it would be dead in the water.

I am a die-hard conservative, and it pains me to suggest this, but remember Lamar Alexander on election day. His dog & pony show is fairly transparent to most.

[tkwalker]

Sadly, Lamar Alexander has let everyone down on this matter. In governmental matters, look no further than the money, and who controls it. Lamar's meetings with the corps, his requests from the corps, and his responses to you guys was nothing more than political posturing. In a back room conferrence, all he had to do, was refuse funding for this issue and it would be dead in the water.

I am a die-hard conservative, and it pains me to suggest this, but remember Lamar Alexander on election day. His dog & pony show is fairly transparent to most.

Pookie I have known this for a while ... I did not want to vote for Diane either but had no choice ... I just couldn't go to the other side ... We need to Wholsesale the whole lot of them if we can ... Just like the coaching staff of the titans !! <'TK><

[Saltwaterwalt]

Kentucky is having this same issue. A Game Warden buddy of mine sent me
this link http://surfky.com/index.php/communities/51-top-news-for-all-sites/23977-county-officials-barkley-dam-restrictions-will-threaten-local-economies

Don't know about the rest of you but I make several trips a year to Ky Dam, one of the best fisheries ever. But it does seem a local judge does have some pull against the corp if enough of us folks let them know that we the people do not want this.

The article has a link for a petition, I've printed it out and will fill it and send it. I urge all of you to do the same, whether you fish Ky Dam or not. If one judge can stop the corp, that means other judges could follow suit.

[Pookie]

Kentucky is having this same issue. A Game Warden buddy of mine sent me
this link http://surfky.com/index.php/communities/51-top-news-for-all-sites/23977-county-officials-barkley-dam-restrictions-will-threaten-local-economies

Don't know about the rest of you but I make several trips a year to Ky Dam, one of the best fisheries ever. But it does seem a local judge does have some pull against the corp if enough of us folks let them know that we the people do not want this.

The article has a link for a petition, I've printed it out and will fill it and send it. I urge all of you to do the same, whether you fish Ky Dam or not. If one judge can stop the corp, that means other judges could follow suit.

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but the Corps has already stated that your signature on a petition means absolutely nothing. It is already determined that this is not a security issue. It is further determined that this is not a trespass issue as they will continue to maintain areas for parking and bank fishing.

Waterways are a natural resource belonging to the taxpayers. Unless this is a harvest management issue similar to sanctuaries for migrating waterfowl, I'm not too certain they have the authority that they are assuming. This matter is similar to fishing around a private boat dock: as long as you stay in the boat, the landowner can't run you off. In a similar manner, as long as you don't tie off to their dam, I am not convinced they have the authority to run you off.

One thing is for certain, making this rule and placing it into effect are two separate issues. Before the dust settles, I foresee this matter tied up in Federal Court for years before it is implemented. The legal staff for COE has already rubber stamped the matter, but somewhere, somebody will think the way I do and file an injunction followed by a lengthy lawsuit to prevent this.

Rather than sign useless petitions, stage meaningless demonstrations, or waste time and ink writing Congressmen, we should be thinking along the lines of a class-action lawsuit. There will not be any monetary gain for anyone, and whoever the attorney who initiates the suit will be paid by the COE, should they be successful. In any event, I foresee this being tied up in court for a long while. The wheels of justice turn slowly. In this instance, it will work in our favor.

Edited to add: This is not a judge per se. A county judge is a mayoral position rather than a judiciary position. Kentucky has remained in the 20th century and not updated the office title to County Executive or County Mayor yet.

[Pookie]

No, I don't think so. The tailwaters are federal property under the jurisdiction of the Corps of Engineers - state political figures like the Governor don't have much authority to tell the feds and the U.S. Army what to do on their land.

Unfortunately, the only possible way to impede this new policy from being implemented will be to put pressure on the Corps to change their minds. It's a long shot but we need to try.

bd

You mean "federal" as in - We the taxpayers??

Google "Riparian Right" and get back with me.

[Catchingtrout]

Maps
http://www.lrn.usace.army.mil/pao/news/Maps_of_boundaries.htm

More details to the restrictions. It's not just boats.

http://www.lrn.usace.army.mil/pao/pdf/12-046%20Nashville%20District%20announces%20plans%20t o%20tighten%20restrictions%20around%20Corps%20Dams .pdf

Channel 5 Report

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/20231427/fisherman-reeling-after-army-corps-decision

[ALANRAYG2]

It looks to me like fishing above and below the dams are going to be a thing of the past. right or wrong it is going to happen. I read dougs post this morning and it looks like a steel cable will be placed across the restricted area. No enforcement will be necessary. you will tear you boat up trying to cross the cable. Perhaps we can get the TWRA and Army Corp to dump rock piles downstream of the cables in the fast water. That would create an artificial reef to break the current and hold some fish. I haven't fished below a dam in a long time. Looks like a good fishery is being taken away for our own good. But my gut says this is going to happen. I wonder how long before TVA does the same thing?

[white95v6]

they can tell you to wear a life jacket near the dam. they make kids wear one on all rivers. and you are in YOUR boat on OUR river. but they tell you what to do. oh wait the tell you to wear a seat belt in YOUR car. get my drift.

heck some states tell you what you can and can't do with the Natural resource called rain. even though it falls on the roof of YOUR house. but you can't store and use it.


Waterways are a natural resource belonging to the taxpayers. Unless this is a harvest management issue similar to sanctuaries for migrating waterfowl, I'm not too certain they have the authority that they are assuming. This matter is similar to fishing around a private boat dock: as long as you stay in the boat, the landowner can't run you off. In a similar manner, as long as you don't tie off to their dam, I am not convinced they have the authority to run you off.

[TroutFiend]

It looks to me like fishing above and below the dams are going to be a thing of the past. right or wrong it is going to happen. I read dougs post this morning and it looks like a steel cable will be placed across the restricted area. No enforcement will be necessary. you will tear you boat up trying to cross the cable. Perhaps we can get the TWRA and Army Corp to dump rock piles downstream of the cables in the fast water. That would create an artificial reef to break the current and hold some fish. I haven't fished below a dam in a long time. Looks like a good fishery is being taken away for our own good. But my gut says this is going to happen. I wonder how long before TVA does the same thing?


You mentioned Doug's post. Where can I read this?

[ALANRAYG2]

You mentioned Doug's post. Where can I read this?

Troutfiend, Let me know if this worked for you.

https://www.facebook.com/dougmarkhamoutdoors?fref=ts

[bd-]

I resisted getting on Facebook for a long time, but I have found that it is a very valuable organizing tool when you need to keep up to date on something like this situation with the Corps restricting tailwater access.

bd

[Pookie]

they can tell you to wear a life jacket near the dam. they make kids wear one on all rivers. and you are in YOUR boat on OUR river. but they tell you what to do. oh wait the tell you to wear a seat belt in YOUR car. get my drift.

heck some states tell you what you can and can't do with the Natural resource called rain. even though it falls on the roof of YOUR house. but you can't store and use it.

You are comparing apples to oranges.

Wearing a seatbelt, or not, doesn't restrict access to roadways.

Wearing a life jacket, or not, doesn't restrict access to waterways.

Failure to use safety equipment merely makes you in violation.

My position remains. Unless and until this matter goes before a judge, it won't be a final issue.

[Andy M]

Waterways are a natural resource belonging to the taxpayers. Unless this is a harvest management issue similar to sanctuaries for migrating waterfowl, I'm not too certain they have the authority that they are assuming. This matter is similar to fishing around a private boat dock: as long as you stay in the boat, the landowner can't run you off. In a similar manner, as long as you don't tie off to their dam, I am not convinced they have the authority to run you off.

The problem with your thought is you are viewing the land being owned by us as citizens (I agree that it should be) but the corp would tell you they own the propery surrounding the water and could completely restrict access tomorrow if they wanted to. Riparian rights mean little to them in this situation being that even those people who have docks don't "own" the land they sit on or connect to.
The fact that one man has the power to do this is what is most frustrating in the whole ordeal.
Big Government equals Big Problems

[bd-]

You mean "federal" as in - We the taxpayers??

Google "Riparian Right" and get back with me.

Pookie, no offense, but I know more about riparian law right now than you could tell me if I gave you 24 hours with Google.

bd

[bd-]

I am a die-hard conservative, and it pains me to suggest this, but remember Lamar Alexander on election day. His dog & pony show is fairly transparent to most.

I feel obligated to stand up in Senator Alexander's defense on this issue.

Senator Alexander doesn't have much direct authority over the Corps of Engineers, but he did look into the issue and pushed the Corps to take public input before implementing their new policy. At a minimum, he delayed what probably would have been implemented with NO public communication at all if Lt. Col. DeLapp had his way.

To be clear, I wish Senator Alexander had done more. Maybe he still will. At least he's shown some active involvement and interest in the issue.

Compare that to the rest of Tennessee's Congressional delegation. Senator Corker passed the buck and did not do ANYTHING. Rep. Diane Black sent a nice e-mail response to people but refused to say a word to the Corps. I couldn't even get a reply from the rest of our elected reps.

THOSE are the people we need to remember on election day. At least Senator Alexander made some effort on behalf of his constituents. Nobody else did.

Oh, and by the way, saying Senator Alexander could immediately "cut off funding" from the Corps for this policy is a bit uninformed. The Senate doesn't individually approve every single line item in the United States Army's budget. We're talking about general operational funds to the Corps of Engineers that's already been appropriated, and no single Senator is going to have enough pull to do anything about that.

bd

[bd-]

The problem with your thought is you are viewing the land being owned by us as citizens (I agree that it should be) but the corp would tell you they own the propery surrounding the water and could completely restrict access tomorrow if they wanted to.

The tailwater area is going to be considered federal property in the same way any other U.S. Army property is considered federal property. Yes, in a sense it's owned by the taxpayers, since we are a government of the people. But there's nothing in riparian law or admiralty law that will stop the Corps' power to restrict access in the manner they're discussing.

If the Corps barriers impeded navigability, there might be an issue. But some the dams at issue (Center Hill for example) don't allow upstream navigability anyway, and at the rest (like Old Hickory) the barriers are planned to restrict access to the discharge areas while leaving navigation through the locks unaffected.

bd

[Pookie]

Oh, and by the way, saying Senator Alexander could immediately "cut off funding" from the Corps for this policy is a bit uninformed.

Alexander chairs the committee that funds USACE. While he wouldn't be involved in line item requests, that budget has to get past the committee before it hits the floor.

I'm not here to offer lessons on making laws and passing governmental budgets, I'm here to talk about fishing. But, since the two have become intertwined, I will assume my original posture. Diane Black nor Bob Corker have any involvement in the budgetary process for USACE. Understanding that politicians usual and ordinary modus operandi is to pass the buck, which they did, it fell squarely on Lamar's shoulders. In the very same way that you yield to the man who writes your check, Lamar has the power, if he will use it. He was spineless as a governor, and it seems nothing has changed.

[Doc Marshall]

Wow. I never thought I'd see a reference to the Riparian doctrine on this site.

[agelesssone]

I think Riparian was my Dr when I was little.....

[Alphahawk]

Wow. I never thought I'd see a reference to the Riparian doctrine on this site.

I can discuss the "Rip Rap" but that's about it.


Regards

[j19bill]

I think Riparian was my Dr when I was little.....

LOL

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[nomad60]

BTW, this made it into an article called "The Race Is On" in the January issue of Bassmaster magazine.

[TroutFiend]

Troutfiend, Let me know if this worked for you.

https://www.facebook.com/dougmarkhamoutdoors?fref=ts

Yes this link worked, Thank you. Apparently I need to join Facebook he posted an interesting statement today.

"Bottom line, still only 14 deaths below our dams since 1970 versus 868 in the lakes (which may also include the 14 deaths below the dam) That's 10 dams and probably millions of hours of mostly safe fishing".

[Mike Anderson]

10 year olds on jet skies, people skiing/wake boarding in very narrow rivers, drunk kayakers everywhere, 90mph bass boat collisions at night, lakes so crowded you can't fit a boat in sideways, and this is what they come up with for safety? Really???

This reeks of some kind of vendetta against sportsmen...

[tkwalker]

Dear Mr. Walker:



Thank you for contacting me about the Army Corps of Engineers' plan to restrict access to certain waters for fishing.



I have met with local and national officials from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to discuss this issue and express the sentiments and frustrations from Middle Tennesseans.



As you know, the Corps-owned locks and dams on the Cumberland and adjoining tributaries are the only Corps projects in the nation that are not in compliance with these fishing restrictions. Last week, the Corps issued a final decision to enforce its long-standing national policy and will restrict access to these waters next year. However, the Corps said that fishing from the shores of these areas will still be allowed.



I support the rights of sportsmen, and believe in encouraging activities that can foster a love of the outdoors; however, we must also abide by the law and regulations. I hope that you will attend the Corps' public meetings on this issue in January 2013 to voice your concerns.



Thanks again for taking the time to share your views with me.


Sincerely,

Jim Cooper
Member of Congress

[tkwalker]

Dear Captain Walker,



Thank you for taking the time to contact my office to share your concerns about the Army Corps of Engineers limiting access to fishing near dams on the Cumberland River. Your opinion is important to me, and I appreciate the time you took to share your thoughts.



I understand the importance of fishing to many Tennesseans and I am a strong proponent of providing broad access to fishing areas when possible. As you know, the Army Corps of Engineers has not yet released its final proposal for possible access restrictions. My staff and I will continue to monitor the situation and when the final rule is released I will certainly keep your thoughts in mind as we move forward.



Thank you again for your letter. I hope you will continue to share your thoughts with me.






Sincerely,

Bob Corker
United States Senator

[browntrout]

Dear Mr. Walker:



Thank you for contacting me about the Army Corps of Engineers' plan to restrict access to certain waters for fishing.



I have met with local and national officials from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to discuss this issue and express the sentiments and frustrations from Middle Tennesseans.



As you know, the Corps-owned locks and dams on the Cumberland and adjoining tributaries are the only Corps projects in the nation that are not in compliance with these fishing restrictions. Last week, the Corps issued a final decision to enforce its long-standing national policy and will restrict access to these waters next year. However, the Corps said that fishing from the shores of these areas will still be allowed.



I support the rights of sportsmen, and believe in encouraging activities that can foster a love of the outdoors; however, we must also abide by the law and regulations. I hope that you will attend the Corps' public meetings on this issue in January 2013 to voice your concerns.



Thanks again for taking the time to share your views with me.


Sincerely,

Jim Cooper
Member of Congress

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.......see I can copy and paste just like a congressman.

Roy

[browntrout]

Dear Captain Walker,



Thank you for taking the time to contact my office to share your concerns about the Army Corps of Engineers limiting access to fishing near dams on the Cumberland River. Your opinion is important to me, and I appreciate the time you took to share your thoughts.



I understand the importance of fishing to many Tennesseans and I am a strong proponent of providing broad access to fishing areas when possible. As you know, the Army Corps of Engineers has not yet released its final proposal for possible access restrictions. My staff and I will continue to monitor the situation and when the final rule is released I will certainly keep your thoughts in mind as we move forward.



Thank you again for your letter. I hope you will continue to share your thoughts with me.






Sincerely,

Bob Corker
United States Senator

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.......see I can copy and paste just like a congressman.

Roy

[robhal11]

Thanks TK for your input to these two guys and Mike you are right on. I have been fishing these waters of middle TN and KY for 40+ years and they could spend all there time on the idiots.

[Travis C.]

BTW, this made it into an article called "The Race Is On" in the January issue of Bassmaster magazine.

I was looking for this or something regarding it on the BASS site and came across this:

http://www.bassmaster.com/news/bass-reacts-corps-modified-recreation-strategy

"The Corps stated that declining recreation program budgets required changes in its recreation program and program delivery. Concerned that the Corps didn’t use a public process to make these changes, B.A.S.S. provided the following letter outlining observations and concerns based on a thorough review of the plan by B.A.S.S."

Something in there sounds familiar... can't quite put my finger on it. :D

[nomad60]

I was looking for this or something regarding it on the BASS site and came across this:

http://www.bassmaster.com/news/bass-reacts-corps-modified-recreation-strategy

"The Corps stated that declining recreation program budgets required changes in its recreation program and program delivery. Concerned that the Corps didn’t use a public process to make these changes, B.A.S.S. provided the following letter outlining observations and concerns based on a thorough review of the plan by B.A.S.S."

Something in there sounds familiar... can't quite put my finger on it. :D

Here is the article:

http://www.landinglunkers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/BM_Article.pdf

You can either right-click and chose "save as" or click it and it should open in your browser.

[SalmonDaze]

. . . . blah, blah, blah:

Dear Mr. Walker:

. . .
As you know, the Corps-owned locks and dams on the Cumberland and adjoining tributaries are the only Corps projects in the nation that are not in compliance with these fishing restrictions. Last week, the Corps issued a final decision to enforce its long-standing national policy and will restrict access to these waters next year. However, the Corps said that fishing from the shores of these areas will still be allowed.

. . .

Sincerely,

Jim Cooper
Member of Congress

__________________________________________________ ____________

From the Corps' Mission statement on their website:

http://www.usace.army.mil/About/MissionandVision.aspx

Mission
Provide vital public engineering services in peace and war to strengthen our Nation's security, energize the economy, and reduce risks from disasters.
__________________________________________________ _______________

Question: how does one become an elected official in our government and not understand the difference between MANAGING (ie: "services") the Public's assets and OWNING them? These guys employ STAFFS of lawyers. Why not get them to write letters that have some level of accuracy rather than put their grossly misinformed and ignorant "thoughts" on paper?

Earth to Rep Cooper: The Army Corps does NOT own these assets; although, we all realize how much they might covet the power that would come with this.

[lupanfreitag]

All I want for Christmas is access to TN's dams.

Santa.... coal for the Corps.

[MNfisher]

all i want for christmas is access to tn's dams.

Santa.... Coal for the corps.

amen to that!!