Corp. of Engineers is planning on closing all boating/bank fishing below all dams.

[fisher01]

The Corp. of Engineers is planing on closing all boat and bank access below all the dams in the Cumberland River System. Here's are two letters recently sent to the Corp. One from Lamar Alexander and the other from TWRA. We need to get the word out and stop this action.

Dear Colonel DeLapp:

I am writing to express my concerns about your decision to restrict access to fishing areas in dam tailwaters on the Cumberland River system and recommend that you reconsider that decision.

The Cumberland River system is a significant source of enjoyment for Tennesseans and visitors from around the world. Those who enjoy fishing and the businesses that serve them benefit from the open access of the Cumberland River system, and the revenue that is generated by these activities is an important part of Tennessee’s economy.

It is my understanding that the current practice has not resulted in a significantly higher risk to public safety than is experienced at other dams across the country. The current practice is strongly supported by the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency, and they share my view that restricting access to tailwater areas is unnecessary. At a minimum, I believe that any change of this magnitude should be subject to a public comment period so those who enjoy fishing can have an opportunity to express their concerns and propose alternatives to improve public safety. Changes should only be considered after a thorough review of all public comments and suggestions.

I look forward to talking with you directly on this issue to discuss any proposed changes prior to their enactment. Thank you for your consideration of this request.

Sincerely,

Lamar Alexander

2nd letter

October 31, 2012
TENNESSEE WILDLIFE RESOURCES AGENCY
ELLINGTON AGRICULTURAL CENTER P. O. BOX 40747 NASHVILLE, TENNESSEE 37204

Frederick B. Bell
Chief, Natural Resources Management Branch Nashville District
US Army Corps of Engineers

Mr. Bell,
As you requested during our conference call on October 22, 2012, the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency is sending this letter to convey the value of the fisheries located immediately below USAGE projects in the Cumberland Valley.

Our understanding is that the USAGE proposes to restrict boat access in tailwaters to include the areas with the most turbulent waters. This distance would vary by project but based on our discussion it is likely that it would at least restrict access downstream to the end of the lock wall. We strongly urge your staff to reconsider this decision. These tailwater areas are highly valued assets to the region as they offer the best fishing and ease of access for both bank and boating anglers.

Nowhere else in these run-of-river reservoirs are fish so abundant. Several species of fish are predictably caught at the dam during seasonal runs. These include striped bass, white bass, yellow bass, sauger, walleye, catfish, paddlefish, and skipjack herring. Catch rates for these species are orders of magnitude higher in this area, especially during peak seasons. While these species are present in the lower reservoir at other times of the year, their distribution is scattered resulting in less successful fishing trips. Many anglers would not fish at all if access at the dam were restricted. After decades of opportunity at dams,these areas are traditional fisheries for generations of middle Tennesseans.

There are several reasonswhy fish are abundant in the proposed restricted zones below Cordell Hull, Old Hickory, and Cheatham dams.

1)The dam is a barrier that concentrates migrating fish during spawning runs(November through May). TWRA relies on access to these spawning runs to collect broodf ish for hatcheries. These are also permanent survey sites used to monitor fish populations.
2) Fish are entrained through the dam creating a supply of easy food for many fish species year-round.
3) The high flows have created scour holes and complex hydraulic conditions that some species prefer as habitat.
4) Shad and other baitfish concentrate below dams which attract predatory gamefish.
5) Gate operations during the summer months improve water quality and fish are using
these areas as refuges.
6) TWRA annually stocks hundreds of thousands of striped bass, sauger and walleye which
ultimately run upstream to the dam for the reasons listed above.

Unlike the bass and crappie fishing that occurs throughout the reservoir, tailwater anglers have no alternative locations that provide similar quality. The tailwater provides eddies and other currents that provide fishing opportunities for boat anglers that are unique to tailwaters. As you travel downstream a short distance from the lock wall, the fishing success drops off abruptly.

Many bank anglers exclusively fish these areas close to the dam because of these high concentrations of fish. Any loss to boat access should be accompanied by improvements and increased maintenance to bank fishing amenities, such as parking areas, walkways, and fishing platforms adjacent to the turbines.

Regretfully, we do not have economic impact data specific to these areas. Frankly it has been so obvious to fisheries managers that these areas are economically important, that such studies had not seemed warranted. We are sure that USAGE project managers can confirm that visitation rates are high during the peak fishing times. A decision to restrict access will annually eliminate thousands of trips made by sport anglers and commercial fishing guides.

TWRA manages tailwaters at Center Hill, Dale Hollow and J. Percy Priest dams as trout fisheries. Boat fishing occurs below all these dams, but is much more common at Center Hill Dam. Unlike the fisheries at the run-of-river impoundments, the fisheries below Center Hill and Dale Hollow change relatively slowly as you go downstream for miles. Therefore, restricting access to the turbulent waters immediately below those dams would not completely limit opportunity. People will still be upset at a loss of public waters available for fishing, but there are alternatives immediately downstream of the restricted area.

Our experience with the winter trout fishery at J.Percy Priestis that most anglers fish the bank from the dam to the 1-40 Bridge. Because that is a fairly short distance, any significant restriction in bank access could jeopardize that fishery. TWRA and Metro Parks recently constructed a new boat ramp at Heartland Park in 2011 in an effort to increase boat fishing
opportunities.

The proposed restriction would be counter-productive to these efforts.A closure would also limit the only upstream access to the Stones River Blue way for non- motorized boats.

In closing, we strongly urge you to consider other alternatives and seek public comment as you move forward on this question. The state's 800,000 anglers and the local businesses they support will be affected by this loss of public waters.

Sincerely,
Bobby Wilson
Chief of Fisheries
TENNESSEE WILDLIFE RESOURCES AGENCY

[browntrout]

As bad as I hate to say it I can almost understand why. When people ignore flashing lights and horns sounding and then get hurt bad or drown you have to wonder do people have the intelligence and knowledge to operate below a dam safely. With several of the deaths at Centerhill I am sure the Corps has probably been sued and are tired of defending lawsuits due to other people's negligence. Hopefully they will reach a compromise.

Roy

[old sailor]

If they shut off the tailwaters it would severely wound me! If all law enforcement agencies would get tough on littering and litterers I think it would help ease some pain. I pick up trash all the time and I fish three days a week year round. The trash left by some so called sportsmen is embarassing. Access to woods dam tailwater was closed because of this and I see corps personnel picking trash out of the jetty at cordell hull all the time. I suspect this weighs heavily on wanting to close these waters. Just my two cents worth, sometimes I need to vent about littering!!

[nofish]

they need to find something better to do than to mess with us anglers all of the time! i'm sick of it and any jackass politician that supports it won't ever get a vote from me! you're an idiot if you can't fish responsibly below a dam and you'll get your butt handed to you if you don't pay attention to the warning signs and conditions. i know some incidents happen below dams across the usa and even here, but it must be rare cause i never hear about it locally. this would definitely have negative economic impacts and royally tee off alot of anglers.

[nofish]

ALL I CAN SAY IS WOW!!! WHAT'S NEXT?!?:mad:

[Travis C.]

Working Together As Sportsmen To Stop Access To Our Fishing Waters Without Public Input.

Please SHARE this commentary.

By Doug Markham
Outdoors With Doug Markham
...
The information posted at the bottom of this commentary is for those who want an answer to questions before a government plan to close boat access to our dams is implemented in Middle Tennessee.

As a long time fisherman, and one that immensely enjoys fishing below dams, I find the attempt by the the Corps of Engineers to restrict boat access below dams offensive and puzzling.

Bass anglers, trout anglers, sauger and walleye fishermen, striper and white bass lovers, and catfish fanatics have the most at stake if the Corps denies you access to generators and the accompanying eddies, seams, and swirls manufactured by them.

But deer hunters, turkey pursuers, small game enthusiasts and anyone who loves outdoors should hear the alarm ringing just as loudly over this issue being brought on itself solely by the Nashville District Corps of Engineers and the 61st commander to lead this government entity.

You may never have fished below a dam, you may not fish at all, but I'm betting many of you find just as offensive as I do an attempt to stop a tradition for apparently no greater reason than one man or a handful of COE administrators want to see it stopped regardless of what anyone else has to say about the issue.

More galling is that generally these top district COE commanders are short timers. Most are around for about two years before their next appointment sends them upwards in rank or position or onwards into retirement.

I'm not sure how much longer the current colonel has remaining in his Nashville tenure, but if he gets his way he can end a Tennessee tradition without having ever been elected to anything in this state by any of us! Our governor can't even do that.

And, he might even be able to do it without holding a public meeting to get input from thousands of anglers and numerous businesses, counties, or cities that count on angling dollars brought in by the attraction of dams. That is where we all should uniformly find offense.

How long have these plans been in the works? Was the COE just going to be put into place one day with COE rangers running us all below certain line of demarcation--a buoy or a ramp perhaps? Are we going to get citations, big fines, or taken downtown if try to fish where we have been fishing for decades?

Eddie West is a good reporter for the Carthage Courier newspaper in Smith County. He doesn't know much about fishing, but he knows enough that local Cordell Hull anglers will howl at an attempt by a un-elected government official to remove access to their fishing tradition. He asked the COE to send him a press release about the proposed boat restrictions and this is what he got via email:

"The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Nashville District is currently in the process of finalizing a plan to restrict boat access to hazardous waters directly upstream and downstream of all hydroelectric power plant facilities along the Cumberland River and its tributaries. When the implementation plan is finalized, the Corps will release the information to the public."

Respectfully,

Lee Roberts
Public Affairs Specialist
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
Nashville District

This statement was only sent this week and only at the request of Eddie Wes and not sent by the colonel, as you can see.

I appreciate Eddie for sending that quote. It says to me that when the Corps is ready to put our new plan in place they will let us know the day one of our longstanding traditions comes to an end. Until then, don't worry about it.

We all know about the potential hazards below dams, just as we know about the potential hazards of boats in general, treestands if you are hunter, and 16-year-old drivers sharing I-65 or I-24 if you're a driver.

It's puzzling to me that the first 60 commanders of the Nashville District Corps of Engineers have not made boat access an issue. For some reason the 61st wants to end our tradition here before he MOVES ON. This should alarm all sportsmen and all sportsmen should work together to stop this ASAP. Notice in the COE quote, it says "upstream and downstream" of our dams. How far upstream?

U.S. Senator Lamar Alexander has written the COE colonel a letter asking that he hold public meetings before any implementation takes place. Apparently it has galled him too and he is heavy hitter in the United States Senate.

That letter, along with one written by TWRA opposing any boat restrictions, is good and I appreciate the Senator and former governor of this state. But, I still believe it will take the cooperation and unity of all sportsmen to get this attempt stopped. By the way, you can read the TWRA letter on it Region II FB page.

What if--just what if--the next COE commander says too many people are drowning on Percy Priest or Old Hickory and that the COE needs to save lives because because boat motors have gotten too fast, or the wind might blow hard, or the water temperature is too cold if you fall out of the boat.

I know that sounds wacky, but until this commander came around I never thought about anyone trying to do what this particular commander of the Nashville District Corps of Engineers is trying to do.

I hope you will share this commentary and the information below with all of your friends. I have attached the Corps Facebook page if you want to pay it a visit and ask questions. Please be cordial, but we deserve answers. I have also asked the colonel to be on my radio show. No response yet, but I asked him through the COE's Public Affairs Office a day before Thanksgiving.

Here are contact pages for two U.S. Senators and four U.S. Congressmen that have Cumberland River waters in their districts. If you are not sure what your congressional district is, just do a Google search for maps of Tennessee congressional districts.

Senator Lamar Alexander (statewide representation)
http://www.alexander.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=Email (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alexander.senate.gov%2Fpu blic%2Findex.cfm%3Fp%3DEmail&h=iAQEJi3wA&s=1)

Senator Bob Corker (statewide representation)
http://www.corker.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/contactme (http://www.corker.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/contactme)

Congressman Diane Black
District 6
https://black.house.gov/contact-me/email-me (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fblack.house.gov%2Fcontact-me%2Femail-me&h=6AQGZ7sQA&s=1)

Congressman Marsha Blackburn
District 7
http://blackburn.house.gov/contact/ (http://blackburn.house.gov/contact/)

Congressman Jim Cooper
District 5
https://forms.house.gov/cooper/webforms/issue_subscribe.html (https://forms.house.gov/cooper/webforms/issue_subscribe.html)

Congressman Scott Desjarlais
District 4
http://desjarlais.house.gov/contact/ (http://desjarlais.house.gov/contact/)

Here is the Corps FB page http://www.facebook.com/nashvillecorps (http://www.facebook.com/nashvillecorps)

[creeksmallie]

Travis, I was about to post this also.
TK or Brian please keep this on the top
Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

Mike Dial

[Reel Tune]

Thanks for sharing, it's very saddening. I will do whatever I can to help prevent this. I enjoy tailwaters and enjoy sharing them safely with others.

[Saltwaterwalt]

Email sent to congressman, hope all will do the same ... scary government control!

[tkwalker]

Travis, I was about to post this also.
TK or Brian please keep this on the top
Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

Mike Dial

This is a reminder to contact all Gov. officials that has direct input in to this ... Especially the ones who are always looking for votes ... <'TK>< :mad:

[tkwalker]

Sir or Madam, This is a request from myself and thousands of members of www.Fishingtn.com to please look into this matter ... For the Fishermen of the fine State of Tennessee. It seems more Government control is being forced upon us without any proof or facts of reasoning.. Below are documents from TWRA and other concerened Officials. Also Please go to my website and look at this post... http://www.fishingtn.com/showthread.php?t=5937 ... (Posters, copy and Email this) Thank you for any action in this matter <'TK><

Capt. TK Walker (U.S.C.G.)
Owner and Administrator
www.Fishingtn.com





Working Together As Sportsmen To Stop Access To Our Fishing Waters Without Public Input.

Please SHARE this commentary.

By Doug Markham
Outdoors With Doug Markham
...
The information posted at the bottom of this commentary is for those who want an answer to questions before a government plan to close boat access to our dams is implemented in Middle Tennessee.

As a long time fisherman, and one that immensely enjoys fishing below dams, I find the attempt by the the Corps of Engineers to restrict boat access below dams offensive and puzzling.

Bass anglers, trout anglers, sauger and walleye fishermen, striper and white bass lovers, and catfish fanatics have the most at stake if the Corps denies you access to generators and the accompanying eddies, seams, and swirls manufactured by them.

But deer hunters, turkey pursuers, small game enthusiasts and anyone who loves outdoors should hear the alarm ringing just as loudly over this issue being brought on itself solely by the Nashville District Corps of Engineers and the 61st commander to lead this government entity.

You may never have fished below a dam, you may not fish at all, but I'm betting many of you find just as offensive as I do an attempt to stop a tradition for apparently no greater reason than one man or a handful of COE administrators want to see it stopped regardless of what anyone else has to say about the issue.

More galling is that generally these top district COE commanders are short timers. Most are around for about two years before their next appointment sends them upwards in rank or position or onwards into retirement.

I'm not sure how much longer the current colonel has remaining in his Nashville tenure, but if he gets his way he can end a Tennessee tradition without having ever been elected to anything in this state by any of us! Our governor can't even do that.

And, he might even be able to do it without holding a public meeting to get input from thousands of anglers and numerous businesses, counties, or cities that count on angling dollars brought in by the attraction of dams. That is where we all should uniformly find offense.

How long have these plans been in the works? Was the COE just going to be put into place one day with COE rangers running us all below certain line of demarcation--a buoy or a ramp perhaps? Are we going to get citations, big fines, or taken downtown if try to fish where we have been fishing for decades?

Eddie West is a good reporter for the Carthage Courier newspaper in Smith County. He doesn't know much about fishing, but he knows enough that local Cordell Hull anglers will howl at an attempt by a un-elected government official to remove access to their fishing tradition. He asked the COE to send him a press release about the proposed boat restrictions and this is what he got via email:

"The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Nashville District is currently in the process of finalizing a plan to restrict boat access to hazardous waters directly upstream and downstream of all hydroelectric power plant facilities along the Cumberland River and its tributaries. When the implementation plan is finalized, the Corps will release the information to the public."

Respectfully,

Lee Roberts
Public Affairs Specialist
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
Nashville District

This statement was only sent this week and only at the request of Eddie Wes and not sent by the colonel, as you can see.

I appreciate Eddie for sending that quote. It says to me that when the Corps is ready to put our new plan in place they will let us know the day one of our longstanding traditions comes to an end. Until then, don't worry about it.

We all know about the potential hazards below dams, just as we know about the potential hazards of boats in general, treestands if you are hunter, and 16-year-old drivers sharing I-65 or I-24 if you're a driver.

It's puzzling to me that the first 60 commanders of the Nashville District Corps of Engineers have not made boat access an issue. For some reason the 61st wants to end our tradition here before he MOVES ON. This should alarm all sportsmen and all sportsmen should work together to stop this ASAP. Notice in the COE quote, it says "upstream and downstream" of our dams. How far upstream?

U.S. Senator Lamar Alexander has written the COE colonel a letter asking that he hold public meetings before any implementation takes place. Apparently it has galled him too and he is heavy hitter in the United States Senate.

That letter, along with one written by TWRA opposing any boat restrictions, is good and I appreciate the Senator and former governor of this state. But, I still believe it will take the cooperation and unity of all sportsmen to get this attempt stopped. By the way, you can read the TWRA letter on it Region II FB page.

What if--just what if--the next COE commander says too many people are drowning on Percy Priest or Old Hickory and that the COE needs to save lives because because boat motors have gotten too fast, or the wind might blow hard, or the water temperature is too cold if you fall out of the boat.

I know that sounds wacky, but until this commander came around I never thought about anyone trying to do what this particular commander of the Nashville District Corps of Engineers is trying to do.

I hope you will share this commentary and the information below with all of your friends. I have attached the Corps Facebook page if you want to pay it a visit and ask questions. Please be cordial, but we deserve answers. I have also asked the colonel to be on my radio show. No response yet, but I asked him through the COE's Public Affairs Office a day before Thanksgiving.

Here are contact pages for two U.S. Senators and four U.S. Congressmen that have Cumberland River waters in their districts. If you are not sure what your congressional district is, just do a Google search for maps of Tennessee congressional districts.

Senator Lamar Alexander (statewide representation)
http://www.alexander.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=Email

Senator Bob Corker (statewide representation)
http://www.corker.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/contactme

Congressman Diane Black
District 6
https://black.house.gov/contact-me/email-me

Congressman Marsha Blackburn
District 7
http://blackburn.house.gov/contact/

Congressman Jim Cooper
District 5
https://forms.house.gov/cooper/webforms/issue_subscribe.html

Congressman Scott Desjarlais
District 4
http://desjarlais.house.gov/contact/

Here is the Corps FB page http://www.facebook.com/nashvillecorps

[jad2t]

This is absolutely absurd and just another example of Government getting too powerful and too involved in our lives. Emails and phone calls will be sent to our representatives.

[tkwalker]

I just emailed a copy of my above post to all of the congress Persons that was on the list.... Please do the same ... <'TK><

[Mnfishingbum]

Emails sent. Also posted on Facebook.

[jimj3561]

has anyone seen any stories on the news about this?

[Fish Whisperer]

I passed this thread along to Mike Organ of the Tennessean... He said he's on it. Hopefully we can nip this in the bud..



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[browntrout]

has anyone seen any stories on the news about this?

Saw 1 story about it tonight on the news. Sadly they made it sound like it was a definite, and a good thing.

Roy

[Fish Whisperer]

Not to get political on here, but if it does pass, Alexander and Corker need to go....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[browntrout]

Not to get political on here, but if it does pass, Alexander and Corker need to go....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

From what I understand these Corps guys can just speak it into existence. It is obvious that they have too much power if they are able to do something like this. Hopefully what our Senators can do is to put some "muscle" on him and make him rethink his stance.

Roy

[tkwalker]

T.K, Thank you very much. Been on your site several times today. Really appreciate you helping out. I consider this a very serious issue for sportsmen.

Sent from my iPhone

[jad2t]

Can anyone provide a link to this information? I've google searched and can't find anything on it other than it being posted in forums.

[Alphahawk]

I have fired off the appropriate emails to those in power. It just stinks all the way around. Fishing below dams has been around a long time and it would kill me to know we couldn't do it anymore. My brother-in-law...browntrout's dad...would drive from Columbia to fish for White Bass below Pickwick.....and be back in Columbia ready for work at 11:00 AM. He did this in a 1940 something Hudson in 1946 and 1947! Now I know Pickwick is a TVA dam and is on the TN but if the Corp can do it...then TVA might not be far behind. Hopefully that O5 has already had his wings clipped and the matter is over with...I hope.


Regards

[browntrout]

Can anyone provide a link to this information? I've google searched and can't find anything on it other than it being posted in forums.

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2012/11/20/239020/Alexander-Urges-Corps-Of-Engineers-To.aspx

Roy

[Travis C.]

Unless I have overlooked it. what's the reason for the closure? I can't see where it has been said instead just a bunch of response and concern.

I am definitely in favor of our rights as fishermen but need more info to see what's really going on rather than make a knee jerk reaction.

[bd-]

Unless I have overlooked it. what's the reason for the closure?

Nobody in any official capacity has said. My best guess is safety issues - people occasionally get killed by getting too close to tailwater discharges, or anchoring where they shouldn't, etc. I imagine someone is tired of people getting hurt and killed because they're too dumb to follow basic, common-sense rules.

The only thing that doesn't make sense if it's a safety issue is why the restriction is only being considered on dams in the Cumberland River system. Not sure about that.

I guess the cynical part of me says it could be some sort of retribution or fallout from all the litigation that has come up against the Corps in the wake of the May 2010 flood, but that is pure, unsupported speculation on my part.

bd

[punchs]

I know LTC DeLapp and I will definately voice a more personal oppinion with him. He is a very busy man and has a lot on his plate but I will let everyone know if he gives more than a political standpoint feedback.

[tkwalker]

I spoke with Doug this morning as well as an email (see below) ... He will have more Info about this subject that can be posted later ... <'TK><

T.K.

Your motor work is outstanding. You surely have a talent worth talking about.
I'll get with you in
the new year and we will have a good discussion. I'll try to lead folks to your
site so that
they can view your work. I a m impressed.

Also, thanks for your energy in this Corps issue. Unless the folks out
there--fishermen and non fishermen--understand
that safety below our dams is not going to be issue the Corps makes it out to
be, they will believe this Lt. Col. is doing something
great to protect us from ourselves.

I think that Mike Organ will show in Thursday's newspaper that only 14 people
have died below our dams since 1970.
That's too many, of course, but compare it to the number of deaths down lake. I
expect that number is easily more than 1,000.

Talk to you soon and thanks again.

Doug

[nofish]

if imposed would these restrictions include the steamplants? the gallatin steamplant is tva owned, but it's on a corp lake right?

[tkwalker]

if imposed would these restrictions include the steamplants? the gallatin steamplant is tva owned, but it's on a corp lake right?

But it is a Corp Lake.... <'TK><

[browntrout]

We can also post on the Corps Facebook page. If you have facebook search Nashville District. I just posted on their site. Maybe all forms of contact will help.

Roy

[nofish]

not trying to stir the pot to much, but i'd be in favor and would participate in an on the water below a dam multiple boat protest.

[browntrout]

not trying to stir the pot to much, but i'd be in favor and would participate in an on the water below a dam multiple boat protest.

They might turn the sluice on us.

Roy

[tkwalker]

They might turn the sluice on us.

Roy

Go to Cordell Hull 2 ramps either side of the dam .. 1 in Carthage ... No Sluice ... And why just yaks ... Everybody ...power boats, yaks ..etc ..

Show a major protest ... check gen schedules etc ... call the TV stations have TWRA there ... Everyone be legal .... <'TK><

[Fish Whisperer]

I'm in.
This power grab is ridiculous and should be fought.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jad2t]

We can also post on the Corps Facebook page. If you have facebook search Nashville District. I just posted on their site. Maybe all forms of contact will help.

Roy

I just posted on the facebook page too. Everyone please post. There is a long list of people outraged by this, keep the backlash coming. We can't let them do this.

[browntrout]

Facebook response from the Corps:

Nashville District Thank you for your comments. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Nashville District is currently in the process of finalizing a plan to restrict boat access to hazardous waters directly upstream and downstream of all hydroelectric power plant facilities along the Cumberland River and its tributaries. When the plan is finalized, the Corps will release the information to the public.

[Travis C.]

Facebook response from the Corps:

Nashville District Thank you for your comments. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Nashville District is currently in the process of finalizing a plan to restrict boat access to hazardous waters directly upstream and downstream of all hydroelectric power plant facilities along the Cumberland River and its tributaries. When the plan is finalized, the Corps will release the information to the public.

Not boat and bank?

Seems like a safety issue or at least that looks to be their reasoning. Be interesting to see what the info is once released.

That would suck for me and fishing below Center Hill at night depending on what the plan is.

[browntrout]

Not boat and bank?

Seems like a safety issue or at least that looks to be their reasoning. Be interesting to see what the info is once released.

That would suck for me and fishing below Center Hill at night depending on what the plan is.

AHHHH Travis you are wise among your years....we wont fish below the dams in our boats we will use our kayaks. LOL I also wonder he is going to enforce the law? I dont really see the TWRA getting on board with this one and the Corps has no patrols on the Caney, only the guys in the pickup trucks.

Roy

[jad2t]

Facebook response from the Corps:

Nashville District Thank you for your comments. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Nashville District is currently in the process of finalizing a plan to restrict boat access to hazardous waters directly upstream and downstream of all hydroelectric power plant facilities along the Cumberland River and its tributaries. When the plan is finalized, the Corps will release the information to the public.

I got that same exact response. Seems like they just copy and pasted it to all the complaints. Our tax dollars at work...

[Travis C.]

AHHHH Travis you are wise among your years....we wont fish below the dams in our boats we will use our kayaks. LOL I also wonder he is going to enforce the law? I dont really see the TWRA getting on board with this one and the Corps has no patrols on the Caney, only the guys in the pickup trucks.

Roy

It really makes no sense or I guess it possibly could if they would communicate.

The more it becomes a closed door, "this is what you guys get" thing the more I tend to lean with bd's comment of "I guess the cynical part of me says it could be some sort of retribution or fallout from all the litigation that has come up against the Corps in the wake of the May 2010 flood, but that is pure, unsupported speculation on my part."

Kinda like the Flipper's thing, I bet he ruffled some feathers possibly over the bridge construction on 109 which caused the issues of Corps property. That statement is totally unsupported and opinion on my part.

[Pookie]

They might turn the sluice on us.

Roy

No chance in the world!

If they did so intentionally, and someone got hurt, they couldn't stand the legal battle that would ensue. If it was a matter of course, there wouldn't be much that could be said or done. If it was arbitrary, their ass would be in a sling.

[Travis C.]

Here's another thought on the issue.

Say, don't allow boats "x" of feet below dams. I'd think there would be a set number of feet not Dam specific.

What if that distance takes away the ramps Center Hill (hypothetically speaking) the canoe rental outfits would be up in arms not getting those ramps plus that stretch to Happy away and bound to hurt business.

It may sound like too far to go up there but if there is universal distance to work every where then its not far fetched. The dam to that ramp on the Ranger's side is a little over 1,000 ft roughly yet on Old Hickory its almost 900ft to the end of the lock wall from the dam roughly....

[Fishbus]

I imagine they are just looking at the immediate area where generation water boils up. Though they did say the Corps is restrictin the imediate headwater side. I do engineering work for TVA Hydro and worked on their Tailwater Warning Systems that have the lights and horns. Don't know why the Corps can't just put those in and be happy.

[jad2t]

I imagine they are just looking at the immediate area where generation water boils up. Though they did say the Corps is restrictin the imediate headwater side. I do engineering work for TVA Hydro and worked on their Tailwater Warning Systems that have the lights and horns. Don't know why the Corps can't just put those in and be happy.

Well because if they just did that, then there would be no additional opportunity to write citations/give fines for people fishing below dams. Just follow the money and you'll find out the real reason behind this. It's not our safety, that's for sure.

[Jdkxtreme]

Maybe they will just put up fences....HaHa

[Travis C.]

Maybe they will just put up fences....HaHa

Electric fences...:D

[bd-]

I really doubt money from ticket revenues has much to do with it. The revenue from fines wouldn't wind up in the Corps' pocket since it's a federal agency, and even if it did, the fines against a few boaters and fishermen would be insignificant in light of the size of the Corps budget.


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[browntrout]

I really doubt money from ticket revenues has much to do with it. The revenue from fines wouldn't wind up in the Corps' pocket since it's a federal agency, and even if it did, the fines against a few boaters and fishermen would be insignificant in light of the size of the Corps budget.


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Cant fine me if you cant catch me. LOL Need to have a boat parade one day and have hundreds of boats below the dam. See if they can write that many tickets. Better yet just go ahead and get a ticket for it and always carry it with you and then when they want to give you another ticket just show them the one you already have. Cant try me twice for the same crime. Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Roy

[Jdkxtreme]

. LOL Need to have a boat parade one day and have hundreds of boats below the dam.
Roy


Redneck Yacht Club

[bfish]

I imagine they are just looking at the immediate area where generation water boils up. Though they did say the Corps is restrictin the imediate headwater side. I do engineering work for TVA Hydro and worked on their Tailwater Warning Systems that have the lights and horns. Don't know why the Corps can't just put those in and be happy.

JMO, but I think you hit on something here. I believe that rather than spending money on putting in tailwater camera, sirens,horns etc they would rather have blanket coverage of having no one around, making it easier to remotely operate the hydro from a desk.

Security restriction is a poor reason also; fisherman are very observant and provide reasonable eye and ears to any funny business that might occur.

[Fishbus]

[QUOTE=bfish;26960]JMO, but I think you hit on something here. I believe that rather than spending money on putting in tailwater camera, sirens,horns etc they would rather have blanket coverage of having no one around, making it easier to remotely operate the hydro from a desk.

All of TVA's dams are remote operated from a basement in Chattanooga already. I would also say that there is much more danger involved for the fishermen who race up to the large dams on the Tennessee river with multiple generators running compared to the relatively smaller plants on the Cumberland system.

[bfish]

All of TVA's dams are remote operated from a basement in Chattanooga already. I would also say that there is much more danger involved for the fishermen who race up to the large dams on the Tennessee river with multiple generators running compared to the relatively smaller plants on the Cumberland system. Yeah I know TVA's are remotely operated, but they have cameras to be sure the tailrace is clear before generation changes occur.
Just an FYI but Cordell Hull is 100 megawatt facility, Chickamauga is 119 megawatt, very similar in output.

[CreekWalker]

There are areas on the Ohio River restricted to boat access below dams posted as "stay back x feet" (usually 150 if I remember correctly). This is somewhat understandable from a safety perspective though I can tell you that many fisherman ignore this rule. Also, many fisherman are perplexed when they find a ticket in the mail spawning from their registration numbers being noted.

[nofish]

i go to wheeler dam in alabama several times a year to catfish. when this goes into effect i'll start making many extra trips down there and i'll start going to kentucky and ohio and let them benefit from my business/tax dollars.:mad:

[nofish]

so basically the corporal gets to decide if tennessee loses revenue or not. that's a powerful man.

[tkwalker]

There are areas on the Ohio River restricted to boat access below dams posted as "stay back x feet" (usually 150 if I remember correctly). This is somewhat understandable from a safety perspective though I can tell you that many fisherman ignore this rule. Also, many fisherman are perplexed when they find a ticket in the mail spawning from their registration numbers being noted.

TWRA Is an Agency ... Not a Bureacracy... All of your fees etc, lic, etc ... Boat registration goes to TWRA ... My Thought on this is since TWRA is fighting this as well ........ TWRA does not have to tell the US Corps of ENG... Anything... What #'s belong to Who ... And like someone has already stated TWRA does not have to Police This ... .... <'TK><

[agelesssone]

Could this be terrorist related? Possibly thinking of terrorists blowing up hydroelectric dams?

Imagine if Old Hickory sluice gates were blown, dropping the lake level 20 ft. What would the downstream flood of water do to Nashville and other cities downstream?

Just a different train of thought.

I fish the turbulent waters of Old Hickory and would hate to see it placed off limits, but I'd hate it more if folks got flooded by a blown up dam.

[tkwalker]

Could this be terrorist related? Possibly thinking of terrorists blowing up hydroelectric dams?

Imagine if Old Hickory sluice gates were blown, dropping the lake level 20 ft. What would the downstream flood of water do to Nashville and other cities downstream?

Just a different train of thought.

I fish the turbulent waters of Old Hickory and would hate to see it placed off limits, but I'd hate it more if folks got flooded by a blown up dam.

(I think you ment to say Flood Gates)

I keep hearing about the Terrorists angle ... Question 1 ... How many dams have you heard of that have been targeted or blown ... World wide .. None ... Answer to question 1 .. The corps wants control ... Safety and terrorists want fly in Middle Tennessee Or shall I say Float and that is what the Corps is pushing !!

For the last 30 years we have lost 14 lives below dam discharge ... Because you have people that don't follow safety rules and common sense. Check and see how many people who have died in Tennessee in the past 30 years who were not wearing PFD's ''Life jackets..I will gaurantee it will be over 500.

Bottom line ... Terrorists Want to Kill Masses of people ... Flooding won't do it below Old Hickory ...The flood of 2010 proved that (that the corps caused by not wanting to flood the High rent district of Hendersonville and sent it down the pipe line to Nashville when they opened the flood gates) ... Center Hill, Dale Hollow, Cheatham ... etc ... They will only get cows ... and not Masses of infidels !! . <'TK><

[nofish]

i don't believe it's terrorist related, but they may say that so everyone will shut up. didn't some guys a few years back try to blow up percy priest dam or at least there was a plot to do it? it was locals i believe.

[nofish]

almost 200 people have drowned on priest, i wonder how many on old hickory and all of the other lakes. i would say combined it would exceed 800.

[tkwalker]

Probably most of you who sent the politicians a message got this back from Lamar ... Atleast we know they are aware of it ... <'TK><
Dear Terry,



Thanks very much for getting in touch with me and letting me know what’s on your mind regarding the Sportsmen’s Act of 2012.



I support the Sportsmen’s Act, which increases hunting and fishing access to federal lands while reauthorizing conservation programs. I will continue to work with leadership to resolve the bill’s budgetary concerns and bring it back to the Senate floor when it is ready.

I grew up hiking, hunting, and fishing in the mountains of Tennessee, and I know the importance of the great outdoors. This bill will allow Tennesseans to keep hunting and fishing without burdensome regulations, while at the same time protecting our wetlands and wildlife for future generations.

I am grateful that you took the time to let me know where you stand. I’ll be sure to keep your comments in mind as these issues are discussed and debated in Washington and in Tennessee.





Sincerely,

Lamar

[Catch & Release]

I also sent Lamar an email and this is what he sent in return, with him being on the appropriations committee for the Army corps of engineers, he does have some pull so maybe we have some hope. Hopefully everyone will get on the band wagon and contact all their representatives (especially Lamar Alexander) and we can stop this.......

Here we the reply I got from Lamar:

Dear Douglas,

Thanks very much for getting in touch with me and for letting me know what’s on your mind regarding the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers’ (Corps) decision to restrict boat access to tailwaters along the Cumberland River.

I agree with your concerns about the impact this new policy will have on the fishing community, and I urged the Commander of the Nashville District Corps to continue to allow fishing in the Cumberland River tailwaters.

The fishing and community derives tremendous pleasure from the open access of the Cumberland River system, and the revenue that is generated by these activities is an important part of Tennessee’s economy. At a minimum, I believe that any change of this magnitude should be subject to a public comment period so those who enjoy fishing can have an opportunity to express their concerns and propose alternatives to improve public safety. Changes should only be considered after a thorough review of all public comments and suggestions.

As the senior Republican on the Senate Appropriations Committee Subcommittee on Energy and Water Development, which has jurisdiction over the Corps, I will follow this issue very closely.

I’m grateful you took the time to let me know where you stand. I’ll be sure to keep your comments in mind as this issue is discussed in Washington and in Tennessee.


Sincerely,
Lamar

[bd-]

Probably most of you who sent the politicians a message got this back from Lamar ... Atleast we know they are aware of it ... <'TK><
Dear Terry,



Thanks very much for getting in touch with me and letting me know what’s on your mind regarding the Sportsmen’s Act of 2012.



I support the Sportsmen’s Act, which increases hunting and fishing access to federal lands while reauthorizing conservation programs. I will continue to work with leadership to resolve the bill’s budgetary concerns and bring it back to the Senate floor when it is ready.

I grew up hiking, hunting, and fishing in the mountains of Tennessee, and I know the importance of the great outdoors. This bill will allow Tennesseans to keep hunting and fishing without burdensome regulations, while at the same time protecting our wetlands and wildlife for future generations.

I am grateful that you took the time to let me know where you stand. I’ll be sure to keep your comments in mind as these issues are discussed and debated in Washington and in Tennessee.





Sincerely,

Lamar

Ha ha, looks like Senator Alexander sent you the wrong "form letter" response. He's got one personalized form letter for the Sportsmen's Act and a different one for the dam access issue. When your e-mail came in, some staffer of his probably glanced over it and quickly picked which response to send back to you. It's too bad that the response process is so impersonal, but considering the volume of e-mails that come in to our representatives, it would really be impossible for them to take time to respond to every single one.

Incidentally, the Sportsmen's Act was a very good bill and I was extremely pleased to see Senator Alexander come out in support of it. It would have been a tremendous achievement in expanding access to public land for hunters and fishermen.

Unfortunately, despite Senator Alexander's voice of support, the Republicans in the Senate killed the Sportsmen's Act stone cold dead last week:

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/269443-gop-stops-sportmens-bill-on-budget-violation

Very unfortunate. The so-called budget concerns used as an excuse to kill the bill were extremely questionable, and I am hopeful that we'll see a re-worked version of the bill come up again soon.

bd

[fishfindergeneral]

Doug Markham told me about this over Thanksgiving weeken. We discussed it for hours while we fished and I find this encredibly disturbing. First the defunding of our hatcheries and now this. What's next? It's clearly not a "safety issue" based on the numbers. If they were concerned about safety, they would target personal water crafts. This seems like a smoke screen for something else, but what? The corp runs on a shoe string bugget already so I don't see how they could possibly enforce this anyway. Just my 2 cents...

[Smallmouth6]

The Corps of Engineers has said it will let us know what their news changes will be below dams this month---perhaps it will come as early as this week. The TWRA's commission has asked its director, Ed Carter, to pen a letter to the COE asking that it to not close boat access below the dams. Glad to see the commission getting involved. Meanwhile, I think Director Carter is supposed to me with Lt. Col. Jim Delapp, who is the primary person behind this whole mess. Ed is an excellent person to meet with the Col. Delapp because he has long been a strong supporter of sportsmen and opposed to regulations that are passed to protect us from hurting ourselves. For example, he is alright with kids having mandator life jacket laws, but he does not favor mandatory life jacket laws for adults (to actually have them on your body). He also told me recently that the law to have jackets on below dams was a compromise a few years back with the COE to avoid the closure of these fantastic fishing waters. Please continue to ask your congress folks to intervene. There is NO good reason for this change. Plenty of rules already exist below dams and if the COE wants to enforce them, they can stop plenty of apparently whatever it is they don't like about us being down there. I"ll keep you posted, but never just take "this is the way it's going to be" as an answer. Fishing below dams is a tradition in Tennessee. It's a legacy and it's been around for as long as there have been dams in Tennessee. Also, don't think this is a Homeland Security issue. If it was that important, I'm pretty sure TVA--the manager of dams on the much larger Tennessee River system--would have already done something about it.

[nofish]

Doug Markham told me about this over Thanksgiving weeken. We discussed it for hours while we fished and I find this encredibly disturbing. First the defunding of our hatcheries and now this. What's next? It's clearly not a "safety issue" based on the numbers. If they were concerned about safety, they would target personal water crafts. This seems like a smoke screen for something else, but what? The corp runs on a shoe string bugget already so I don't see how they could possibly enforce this anyway. Just my 2 cents...

it's clearly not about safety because out of 100s of trips below dams i have never ever seen any government official, coast guard, or twra below the dams at all. if they were concerned about safety i would have expected to have seen some agency at some point checking boats or watching.

[nofish]

depending on what the outcome is i think i'll put in downstream of a dam, cover my boat #s and fish it anyway. we'll see.

[nofish]

this is irrelevant i think, but i was fishing downstream of oh dam a few months back close to where the treated sewage flows into the river and a barge passed me going downstream and at the next bend he ran into the bank. it was like he was sleeping or something. it was really loud. he just backed up, straightened it out and just kept on going.

[browntrout]

depending on what the outcome is i think i'll put in downstream of a dam, cover my boat #s and fish it anyway. we'll see.


I got 1 better I am going to write down those obnoxious Jet Skiers #'s when I am on the lake then go buy me a set of those numbers and put them on my boat. Imagine the shock the guy that owns the Jet Ski will get when he opens his mail and there is a ticket.

Roy

[agelesssone]

LOL, Roy, I like your thinking!

[j19bill]

Emails sent.

Has anyone typed up a "form letter" on this matter. A lot more people will send email if all they have to do is copy and past.

[Andy M]

I got 1 better I am going to write down those obnoxious Jet Skiers #'s when I am on the lake then go buy me a set of those numbers and put them on my boat. Imagine the shock the guy that owns the Jet Ski will get when he opens his mail and there is a ticket.

Roy

Love it!

[nofish]

I got 1 better I am going to write down those obnoxious Jet Skiers #'s when I am on the lake then go buy me a set of those numbers and put them on my boat. Imagine the shock the guy that owns the Jet Ski will get when he opens his mail and there is a ticket.

Roy

That's awesome! !!

[tkwalker]

Emails sent.

Has anyone typed up a "form letter" on this matter. A lot more people will send email if all they have to do is copy and past.

Go to page #1 ... 11th Post down by ME <'TK>< "Contact your Congressman"

[j19bill]

Go to page #1 ... 11th Post down by ME <'TK>< "Contact your Congressman"

Don't know how I missed that...

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