Bluegill-Shellcracker cross.

[Alphahawk]

I uploaded a video...such as it is....to youtube today of a fish that I caught at Williamsport. The shape is typical Bluegill....look at head and body. The fish has the dark bars running vertical down the side...Shellcracker's do not have those. Yet there is the Red Ear. Both specie have been known to share beds. You don't catch these often. I have a fisheye lens on order so the pics will get better. Here is the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikUdtvdigbw&feature=channel&list=UL


Regards

[Greasy Ham]

Pretty sure it is not a cross. Just a male redear. The males darken up during the spawn.
Pretty fish.

[Alphahawk]

Pretty sure it is not a cross. Just a male redear. The males darken up during the spawn.
Pretty fish.

It will probably take someone like Walt...if he is still on the forum....to tell us if it is or not. I have caught a lot of Shellcrackers and I know they darken up this time of year. But the vertical bars....the body.....head shape and mouth are to me the giveaway...but I could be wrong.



Regards

[tkwalker]

Nice, pretty and different .... I stock both Gill's and Crackers in my pond I catch them both at different stages .... I have caught what I thought were gills because of the red ears .... and vertical lines with no color on the belly ... I figured Cracker .... But never one as enhanced as this one ... <'TK>< :confused:

[Alphahawk]

[QUOTE=tkwalker;20929][FONT="Times New Roman"]Nice, pretty and different .... I stock both Gill's and Crackers in my pond I catch them both at different stages .... I have caught what I thought were gills because of the red ears .... and vertical lines with no color on the belly ... I figured Cracker .... But never one as enhanced as this one ... <'TK>< :confused:[/FON



Thanks TK....went through about 20 pages of pics on google of supposedly Gill Cracker cross but did not find any image that was close to the fish I caught today. Whatever it is it's one of the prettiest fish I have ever caught.


Regards

[Travis C.]

http://www.fishingtn.com/showthread.php?t=5128

Alpha. Check this thread from mine and the bottom 2 pics.

That fish is very likely a cross. This below is response from David on another site in reference to the gill's size who researches a lot with fish species for study.

"...'cause one of it's parents was very likely a redear. Look at the opercular flap; short and bony to the edge, and with a reddish tinge to the margin. Also has some elements of redear pigmentation on the body. Not an uncommon hybrid, and sure makes for some big honking sunfish!"

[Travis C.]

I can send him the video of yours if you want for pos ID.

[bd-]

I'm guessing that it's just a dark male spawning redear. I've seen a lot of shellcrackers that look like that when they're on the beds in the spring.

Travis's fish from the thread he linked is what the hybrids look like. Note that the vertical bars on Travis's fish aren't as distinct - the markings on the side are more "muddled."

In certain places you can buy the hybrids for pond stocking.

bd

[Alphahawk]

In the video when I said "That is exactly what that is". Well I guess those were words of excitement from seeing the fish. I really am not sure if it is a cross or not. But I have been looking at my old Red Ear pics and the ones from the NET all morning and to me the head on this fish just says Bluegill. All the Red Ear I have seen have a much more streamlined head. I am going to send link to Jim Habera and have him ID fish for me. It is not a matter of "I am right". I am just curious is it a cross or just a Shellcracker with a basketball head.....LOL. When Occidental owned those lake they kept all of those lakes stocked with hybrid Bluegill. It is certainly not one of those but you wonder since so many specie of the Bluegill family were in the lake what type of cross breeding is possible. Those lakes are also full of Black Nose Crappie....and I mean thousands. But for whatever the reason even though you can catch 100 ten inch fish a day none of them have any shoulders on them. They are not sickly looking but just not much meat on them. I know if they get to the 12 to 17 inch range.....and fill out in girth.....it could turn into a Crappie paradise.


Regards

[Travis C.]

Let us know what he says.

It nice looking fish regardless.

[Greasy Ham]

BTW you now have a subscriber to your youtube channel.. Keep the videos coming. What camera are you using? I just ordered a camera yesterday from woot dot com.

[Alphahawk]

BTW you now have a subscriber to your youtube channel.. Keep the videos coming. What camera are you using? I just ordered a camera yesterday from woot dot com.

I saw that camera on woot. I am using a Play Sport ZX3. I only paid 50 bucks for it new. It takes great movies but the stills are not that good. I have a fisheye lens coming Tuesday and hope to get really good videos then. Kodak is getting out of the camera business completely....that seems odd to me.


Regards

[Reel Tune]

Very interesting and I would too like to know the answer. Although it may not be able to be determined without DNA testing. I've caught a lot of bluegill, hybrid bluegill, and redear from the same lake, but none that looked like that. I was reading in the Tennessee Sportsmans magazine today about how the bluegill and redear will cross. It's something where the redear will swim by a bluegills nest and fertilize their eggs???

Jeremy

[Alphahawk]

Very interesting and I would too like to know the answer. Although it may not be able to be determined without DNA testing. I've caught a lot of bluegill, hybrid bluegill, and redear from the same lake, but none that looked like that. I was reading in the Tennessee Sportsmans magazine today about how the bluegill and redear will cross. It's something where the redear will swim by a bluegills nest and fertilize their eggs???

Jeremy

I should get an answer back today.....hopefully....from TWRA Wild Trout Biologist Jim Habera. He should be able to ID just from photo but you could be right.....might need testing to determine. I have known for years that they do cross but I think this is the first one I have come across....if it proves to be a cross. As a matter of fact I have seen them sharing the same beds.


Regards

[Alphahawk]

Here is my reply from Jim Habera.

Jeff, Randy, Roy:

I would agree that this is a bluegill x redear (shellcracker) hybrid. Although it basically looks like a bluegill, bluegill never have red on their opercular lobes, so it must be hybridized with something. Redear would be the other species involved, particularly given the capture location. Also, redears would not have a long, fleshy opercular lobe like this fish, so we know it’s not a straight redear.

Regards,

Jim



Jim Habera
TWRA
Coldwater Fisheries

3030 Wildlife Way
Morristown, TN 37814

Office: 423-522-2459


From: Roy Hawk [mailto:roy@troutmagnet.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 3:59 PM
To: Jim Habera
Cc: Jeff Smith; Randy Goad
Subject: Fwd: Fish ID

Jim,
Please ID the fish in the YouTube video link below if you can and reply to Randy Goad, Jeff and myself. (after watching the video I am curious too about the dark colored pan fish - male bluegill in the video).. Randy has been a great representative of Trout Magnet and is on Jeff&apos;s Pro Staff.
Thank you,
-Roy

Sent from mobile cellular Android 4.0.2 smartphone device..

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Fwd: Fish ID
From: Jeff Smith <jsmith@troutmagnet.com>
To: Roy Hawk <roy@troutmagnet.com>
CC:

Can you forward this to Jim. I don't have his email on my phone.

Sore Lip Em All,


Jeff Smith
Leland's Lures

Begin forwarded message:

From: Randy Goad <randygoad@hotmail.com>
Date: April 28, 2012 9:05:04 AM CDT
To: Jeff Smith <jsmith@troutmagnet.com>
Subject: Fish ID

Jeff……would you mind sending this link to Jim Habera and asking him to ID this fish? I think it is a cross between a Bluegill and a Shell Cracker. I am just curious to know. I caught this at Williamsport Lakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikUdtvdigbw


Thanks……Randy

[Travis C.]

Cool and I'll bet... based on Jim's response and Dave's from mine the two fish we have must be the two variations possible.

Mine's more color of a gill yet with a rigid short opecular lope like red ears and red on the edge.

Your's had more color of a shellcracker yet with the fleshy opecluar lope like gills but with red edge.

Let's breed those together now and see if we can get tilapia. :D

[tnpondmanager]

Hey, been gone from the forum a while, but the fish is definitely a cross between a redear and a bluegill - as Habrera noted, the opercular is too big for a redear, and bluegill do not have the red fringing on their operculars. Beyond that, as Alpha noted, the body shape is much more that of a bluegill than a redear; and the coloring is unique to bluegill-redear crosses. I have several of these crosses in a pond I manage - here are a couple caught this year:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8177/8017172767_7ba0b9daba_m.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8172/8017173069_c78256c291_m.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8442/8000553840_6db74b192e_m.jpg

[Alphahawk]

Hey, been gone from the forum a while, but the fish is definitely a cross between a redear and a bluegill - as Habrera noted, the opercular is too big for a redear, and bluegill do not have the red fringing on their operculars. Beyond that, as Alpha noted, the body shape is much more that of a bluegill than a redear; and the coloring is unique to bluegill-redear crosses. I have several of these crosses in a pond I manage - here are a couple caught this year:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8177/8017172767_7ba0b9daba_m.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8172/8017173069_c78256c291_m.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8442/8000553840_6db74b192e_m.jpg

Hey Walt...long time no see. Nice Gills you have in those lakes. While Williamsport is OK for being right at home it just does not have the big bruisers. Copper Nose are starting to show up at Laurel Hill. Have caught several down there at the pound mark but you won't find any all bunched up together that size. Have ordered some tungsten jigs to try and get deep at Pickwick yet keeping same profile as a 1/64 head but weighing almost 1/32. Going to try them out late Fall early Winter and on.


Regards

[tnpondmanager]

Nice to hear that more coppernose are showing up at Laurel Hill. Here are a couple more photos of bluegill caught this year from ponds I guide on:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8453/8000551664_f71545087f_m.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8440/8000514509_d01746a9bf_m.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8036/8000544601_7090e5d1ea_m.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8304/8000493655_1da58b244d_m.jpg

[tnpondmanager]

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8317/8000548171_a719e6ab13_m.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8453/8000545638_b31de97b36_m.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8307/8000549120_743f97614e_m.jpg

[Alphahawk]

Nice fish!

[tnpondmanager]

Thanks, Alpha! My expensive digital scale broke recently so none of these were weighed, but the client holding the fish up close to the camera is an avid and very skilled bluegill angler and thinks we had thirty over a pound the morning of that fish he's holding - he estimated three of them at 24 ounces, which I think is about right.

[tnpondmanager]

The hybrid in the first set of photos weighed 1 lb. 12 oz. - that one was caught back in May.

[rsimms]

I've never seen one (until now). That's cool... thanks for sharing.