New TN Guide Liscnese?

[Alphahawk]

How much money do they think they can raise by doing this?? They could increase the Trout Stamp by a few bucks and raise a lot more money than this hair brain scheme. I mean how many guides do you run into below Normandy Dam for Trout fishing? Even including the other rivers this is not much revenue..unless they come up with some crazy fee..say 1000 bucks! What would a guide license cost? Below is the plan.

"The Tennessee Wildlife Resources Commission discussed the possibility of implementing a fishing guide license at the Aug. 25 Commission meeting in Kingsport.


The Commission felt that a guide license is needed to assist in expenses at TWRA’s state fish hatcheries due to the likely reductions in trout production at federal fish hatcheries in Tennessee, Dale Hollow and Erwin National Fish Hatcheries.



A recommendation was made to consider a fishing guide license only for the following waters: the rivers immediately below Wilbur, Watauga, South Holston, Cherokee, Norris, Appalachian, Tim’s Ford, Center Hill, Dale Hollow, and Normandy dams.



The Agency was asked to recommend a proposed cost for the guide license, both resident and nonresident; any qualifications or restrictions that may be necessary; the projected cost for managing the program; and the projected revenue generated from the program. These recommendations will be presented to the TWRC on Oct. 13 at the Commission meeting in Nashville."

[Travis C.]

I think the big deal with that was people coming in from out of state and either bringing clients with them or guiding clients from here. Most guides that reside here would probably pay the fees to help curb the other.

[Alphahawk]

I have no problem with paying more for a trout stamp to keep those hatcheries going. But the stated purpose of their recommendation is that a guide license will contribute money to the hatcheries. I am just not sure how much money that would bring in. It just could not be too much unless the license fee is outrageous..in which case few if any would pay for it. Those folks guiding on the Caney are not making that much money. The streams in East TN might be different...plus it costs about $1150to get the US Coast Guard Captains certificate to be a guide anyway....and you better have it to be a fishing guide. Oh well...it was just a rant on my part about the inefficiency of governments to solve a problem. I have to decide wherre to go fish today...too pretty to stay home.


Regards

[Travis C.]

I personally think the Corps/TVA should step up a little more to the plate on covering the cost for Hatcheries. Even still with out the help they get a better return on the $$ put into them.

I am with you on paying a little more for a stamp as well. If the money went directly back to it.

Who knows what the amount would be for the guides if passed but I can't imagine it would bring a lot into the "slush" fund. For example Arkansas has guide licenses in place and resident pay $25 annually while non-resident pays $150. That is a whole lot of guides to pick up that tab if the amounts are close not to mention the number it might scare off from out of state who are using it for free now.

I can't see TN going higher as we aren't on an equal playing field with the money their trout system brings in every year.

[clean air]

I dont think you would need a guide to catch stocker trout below Normandy or Tims but on the better trout waters I guess so.That still wouldn't bring in very much funds.Theres not that many trout guides in our area.

[Alphahawk]

I dont think you would need a guide to catch stocker trout below Normandy or Tims but on the better trout waters I guess so.That still wouldn't bring in very much funds.Theres not that many trout guides in our area.


I think that it will get worked out somehow. Few...if any....Federal Programs get back a 50 to 1 return on their money. But the Hatcheries Program does just that.

Regards

[rick mcferrin]

The TWRA contacted me over 6 months ago exploring the possibility of a state wide guide lic. This began because of complaints that some of our trout guides had concerning out of state people guiding on Tennessee waters with just a out of state lic.

Recently the TWRA sent out a questionaire to all the guides that they could identify and it was followed up by a telephone conversation with them. I don't have a problem with the concept myself if it is fair across the board. When I started my business I got my coast guard lic. because I spent most of my time on Old Hickory. That was the rules thats what I did. But of the few guides that I have talked with there are soem major concern we all have.

If a Guide Lic is requiured #1 How the TWRA going to enforce it on the water ? I was born here and have fished here most of my life and have never 1 time been checked on the water by any TWRA officer other than a creel clerk and that is now and then on Tim's. And by the way NEVER by the coast Guard on Old Hickory.

If this is JUSTa revenue issue it's wrong as far as I'm concerned. It becomes no more than a targeted tax and thats what the TWRA should call it a "Guide Tax"

Now if it is to make sure that every guide has proper Red Cross Training-Water Safty Training-Proof of Commercial Insurance because your regular home owners insurance WILL NOT COVER YOU-YOUR BOAT OR TOW VEHICLE if you use your equipment for hire and if a guide is smart a $1,000,000.00 ubrella policy over and above....and it is verified before the lic is issued and backed up with ON THE WATER checks it becomes another matter.

BUT what will happen is that the only guides this will effect will be the ones that are the most visable-the guys that do this on a part time basis and work else where most of them the TWRA won't have a way to identify.

#2...another issue is that if a guide lic is required it should be for every body of water within our borders no exception. Other wise the TWRA is just targeting those of us that are again the most visable.

#3.....The lic should also include Hunting Guides not just Fishing Guides.

I've been doing this for a long time (16 total years) and I can tell you that you better own your boat-truck and have a lot of good sponsors and another scource of income if you plan to be a full time guide in the state of Tennessee....I'm fortunate I'm at the place when I choose when I go..I don't go because I have to..I love what I do and will continue to do it until the Lord sends me in a different direction.

If anyone that reads this is thinking about becoming a guide I will be happy to answer any question via telephone that you might have if it will help you. My cell is 615-308-9936 and TK I'm sure would do the same........Rick www.tennesseebassguides.com (http://www.tennesseebassguides.com)

[Alphahawk]

The TWRA contacted me over 6 months ago exploring the possibility of a state wide guide lic. This began because of complaints that some of our trout guides had concerning out of state people guiding on Tennessee waters with just a out of state lic.

Recently the TWRA sent out a questionaire to all the guides that they could identify and it was followed up by a telephone conversation with them. I don't have a problem with the concept myself if it is fair across the board. When I started my business I got my coast guard lic. because I spent most of my time on Old Hickory. That was the rules thats what I did. But of the few guides that I have talked with there are soem major concern we all have.

If a Guide Lic is requiured #1 How the TWRA going to enforce it on the water ? I was born here and have fished here most of my life and have never 1 time been checked on the water by any TWRA officer other than a creel clerk and that is now and then on Tim's. And by the way NEVER by the coast Guard on Old Hickory.

If this is JUSTa revenue issue it's wrong as far as I'm concerned. It becomes no more than a targeted tax and thats what the TWRA should call it a "Guide Tax"

Now if it is to make sure that every guide has proper Red Cross Training-Water Safty Training-Proof of Commercial Insurance because your regular home owners insurance WILL NOT COVER YOU-YOUR BOAT OR TOW VEHICLE if you use your equipment for hire and if a guide is smart a $1,000,000.00 ubrella policy over and above....and it is verified before the lic is issued and backed up with ON THE WATER checks it becomes another matter.

BUT what will happen is that the only guides this will effect will be the ones that are the most visable-the guys that do this on a part time basis and work else where most of them the TWRA won't have a way to identify.

#2...another issue is that if a guide lic is required it should be for every body of water within our borders no exception. Other wise the TWRA is just targeting those of us that are again the most visable.

#3.....The lic should also include Hunting Guides not just Fishing Guides.

I've been doing this for a long time (16 total years) and I can tell you that you better own your boat-truck and have a lot of good sponsors and another scource of income if you plan to be a full time guide in the state of Tennessee....I'm fortunate I'm at the place when I choose when I go..I don't go because I have to..I love what I do and will continue to do it until the Lord sends me in a different direction.

If anyone that reads this is thinking about becoming a guide I will be happy to answer any question via telephone that you might have if it will help you. My cell is 615-308-9936 and TK I'm sure would do the same........Rick www.tennesseebassguides.com (http://www.tennesseebassguides.com)

You made all the points I intended to make. I know too well about trying to be a guide and making a living from it. A very close family member went down that road and all was fine when he was married to a woman that was bringing in over 80,000 a year and had him on her health insurance...then divorce...and then quite a mess. He was able to get back into his job career and things looked up. But the point was don't create a tax on someone and call it something else. We all know what it is...if they go through with it. The article I read was about Trout guides only...but as you say how could you not put a license on all guides. I still say if they are going to try and raise money for the Trout hatchery specifically they will have to raise the Trout Stamp fees. I saw the figures in an Arkansas article about that and they had the numbers of folks who bought Trout stamps and it was going to be a viable solution for them if they had to come up with the money. Anyway thanks for your input and Sore Lip'Em All.



Regards

[Travis C.]

What about the other side of the coin?

If you are a hunting guide over in west tn for ducks or what-not and all of the sudden you are forced to add expense into a guide license due to a funding problem for trout hatcheries. You don't fish or even have any trout near you. It will become the smallmouth regulation at Norris Lake all over again.

With the sunsetting possibilites and budget trouble we need unity in outdoors community not any more division.

I totally agree that "if" it is decided upon all guides of both should have a voice and should apply to all from one end of the state to the other.

However, I don't think this is a solution to what they are trying to raise money for. At least try one year a raise stamp. Let the trout fishermen pay for what they seek. I am a trout fisherman and would do all I can to help keep what a great thing we have going.

[rick mcferrin]

It was my understanding from all the conversations that I have had with the TWRA that it didnt just apply to the trout guides.......but all fishing guides..has their intentions changed? ..am I wrong on this?.......Rick

[Travis C.]

It was my understanding from all the conversations that I have had with the TWRA that it didnt just apply to the trout guides.......but all fishing guides..has their intentions changed? ..am I wrong on this?.......Rick

They may have sought opinions from several guides before bringing it to discussion. Based on the meeting out of Kingsport, what looks to have been mentioned was for pretty much only the tailraces having a viable trout fishery.

That will really sinlge out a bunch of guides and seems like they are having a "you use it you help pay for it" mentality.

[Travis C.]

(NASHVILLE --- The Tennessee Wildlife Resources Commission will set the 2012 sport fish regulations among business during its Oct. 13-14 (Thursday-Friday) meeting at to be held at the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency Ray Bell Region II Building in Nashville.)


In addition to establishing next year’s fishing regulations, the TWRC will consider options concerning a possible fishing guide license that were presented during the September meeting held in Jackson.

Frank Fiss, Assistant Chief of TWRA Fisheries, presented options for a fishing guide license for the commission’s and public’s consideration. The fishing guide license options presented were 1) no change to existing rules or no guide license required; 2) fishing guide license required ($200 for residents, $1,000 for non-residents); and 3) fishing guide license required (the same fee of $200 for residents, $1,000 for non-residents) and guides would need to meet qualifying criteria. Those criteria included for discussion were proof of insurance, background check, first aid/CPR training, and boating safety training. Discussion at the September meeting was centered around the guide license for designated tailwater fisheries.

[tkwalker]

The TWRA contacted me over 6 months ago exploring the possibility of a state wide guide lic. This began because of complaints that some of our trout guides had concerning out of state people guiding on Tennessee waters with just a out of state lic.

Recently the TWRA sent out a questionaire to all the guides that they could identify and it was followed up by a telephone conversation with them. I don't have a problem with the concept myself if it is fair across the board. When I started my business I got my coast guard lic. because I spent most of my time on Old Hickory. That was the rules thats what I did. But of the few guides that I have talked with there are soem major concern we all have.

If a Guide Lic is requiured #1 How the TWRA going to enforce it on the water ? I was born here and have fished here most of my life and have never 1 time been checked on the water by any TWRA officer other than a creel clerk and that is now and then on Tim's. And by the way NEVER by the coast Guard on Old Hickory.

If this is JUSTa revenue issue it's wrong as far as I'm concerned. It becomes no more than a targeted tax and thats what the TWRA should call it a "Guide Tax"

Now if it is to make sure that every guide has proper Red Cross Training-Water Safty Training-Proof of Commercial Insurance because your regular home owners insurance WILL NOT COVER YOU-YOUR BOAT OR TOW VEHICLE if you use your equipment for hire and if a guide is smart a $1,000,000.00 ubrella policy over and above....and it is verified before the lic is issued and backed up with ON THE WATER checks it becomes another matter.

BUT what will happen is that the only guides this will effect will be the ones that are the most visable-the guys that do this on a part time basis and work else where most of them the TWRA won't have a way to identify.

#2...another issue is that if a guide lic is required it should be for every body of water within our borders no exception. Other wise the TWRA is just targeting those of us that are again the most visable.

#3.....The lic should also include Hunting Guides not just Fishing Guides.

I've been doing this for a long time (16 total years) and I can tell you that you better own your boat-truck and have a lot of good sponsors and another scource of income if you plan to be a full time guide in the state of Tennessee....I'm fortunate I'm at the place when I choose when I go..I don't go because I have to..I love what I do and will continue to do it until the Lord sends me in a different direction.

If anyone that reads this is thinking about becoming a guide I will be happy to answer any question via telephone that you might have if it will help you. My cell is 615-308-9936 and TK I'm sure would do the same........Rick www.tennesseebassguides.com (http://www.tennesseebassguides.com)

No problem Rick on answering any questions about this issue ...

note... Something struck me while I was reading these post about trout guides ... Then I looked up over my desk and read my UNITED STATES COAST GUARD License ... It states !

TO U.S. MERCHANT MARINE OFFICER ... (text stating that I COMPLETED THE THE CLASS COURSE) That I have a license to operate of uninspected passanger vessels as defined in 46 usc 2101 (42) restricted to all lakes in the commonwealth of Kentucky and State of Tennessee that are NAVIGABLE waters of the UNITED STATES, and the Cumberland and Tennessee rivers.

In another words folks the USCG guide license is not necessary unless you are guiding on Navigable waters which have to be maintained by the Corp of Engs. Which is a min depth of 13 feet .... So the USCG lic. would not come into play on the Caney Fork or any other trout stream that does not fall under this classification .... <'TK>< :)

[Alphahawk]

(NASHVILLE --- The Tennessee Wildlife Resources Commission will set the 2012 sport fish regulations among business during its Oct. 13-14 (Thursday-Friday) meeting at to be held at the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency Ray Bell Region II Building in Nashville.)


In addition to establishing next year’s fishing regulations, the TWRC will consider options concerning a possible fishing guide license that were presented during the September meeting held in Jackson.

Frank Fiss, Assistant Chief of TWRA Fisheries, presented options for a fishing guide license for the commission’s and public’s consideration. The fishing guide license options presented were 1) no change to existing rules or no guide license required; 2) fishing guide license required ($200 for residents, $1,000 for non-residents); and 3) fishing guide license required (the same fee of $200 for residents, $1,000 for non-residents) and guides would need to meet qualifying criteria. Those criteria included for discussion were proof of insurance, background check, first aid/CPR training, and boating safety training. Discussion at the September meeting was centered around the guide license for designated tailwater fisheries.

This just looks like a fulcrum to get more money into state coffers. The USCG license covers most of what TN Guide License would...meaning CPR and so on. To me this is quite sad. If we had 5000 guides in the state...which we don't.... the money coming in would only be a half million. Now that is a lot of money in the hands of someone responsible...but what government be it state, local, or federal is responsible with our money? NONE. I read a couple of release about this and it always was only talking about Trout...tail race guides??? I have a nephew who was a full time guide on Dale Hollow for several years...and a good one at that. But as been mentioned before you are not going to get rich...you may be even lucky just to make expenses depending on sponsors and so on. I had a boat when I lived in West TN a few years back and stored it at a location that was owned by one of the premier Crappie guides of the South. He once told me that in TN if you are a guide you better have something else coming in if you are going into it to make a living at in this state...and this from someone who is booked for next year for 150 trips already. He has a store..boat storage, and cabins. It is just quiet pathetic IMHO.


Regards

[tkwalker]

This just looks like a fulcrum to get more money into state coffers. The USCG license covers most of what TN Guide License would...meaning CPR and so on. To me this is quite sad. If we had 5000 guides in the state...which we don't.... the money coming in would only be a half million. Now that is a lot of money in the hands of someone responsible...but what government be it state, local, or federal is responsible with our money? NONE. I read a couple of release about this and it always was only talking about Trout...tail race guides??? I have a nephew who was a full time guide on Dale Hollow for several years...and a good one at that. But as been mentioned before you are not going to get rich...you may be even lucky just to make expenses depending on sponsors and so on. I had a boat when I lived in West TN a few years back and stored it at a location that was owned by one of the premier Crappie guides of the South. He once told me that in TN if you are a guide you better have something else coming in if you are going into it to make a living at in this state...and this from someone who is booked for next year for 150 trips already. He has a store..boat storage, and cabins. It is just quiet pathetic IMHO.


Regards

First off the money does not go to the State !! It goes to benefit the Fisherman and Hunters of this great State, to provide more outdoor enjoyment, hunting and fishing species as well as boating and hunting education ... ... And they have done a DAMN GOOD JOB OF IT over the past 30 years! ... We have fought to keep the TWRA out of the State humdrum of political control, we have to much of that now! ... We are blessed that the TWRA is an agency not mixed up in bureaucratic politics ... I have no problems paying for licenses, or anything that they request as long as they provide the outdoor sportsman activities and use all of the money that they collect to provide us with this and they have done all of this so far ... We are the great Lakes of The South ... we have nice ramps and accesses .. and numerous public docks for the handicap, ... Move to Fla and have to pay for a lic to fish the Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico ...Like they were stocking it ?? ... To be a Guide is your choice, I have been one, No one owes you anything ..,. Like anything else in this great country if you work hard enough at anything and have the attributes to reach the pinnacle you will be rewarded. If you are average at what you do accept it ... or move on to another profession.

I have known a lot of professional guides in my life here as well as in other states ... and I have only found a hand full that was independent to accomplish that ... the rest had a DAY JOB.(Proof your Crappie Guide has cabins a store and storage ... I bet you most of his major income comes from that business, he does the guiding for a little income and the prestige of being called a prof guide.) So let's don't kick down the TWRA until you know who gets the money ... And yes trout is the issue now, I have seen the TWRA take action when other sporting species was altered due to a loss of funds ... a hell of a job managing Deer in the 60's , managing turkey the late 80's and early 90's ... Stripers in the 70's and even Muskys in the 50's and 60's that are still reproducing at Rock Island, Collins the Rocky and Dale Hollow and they haven't been stocked in over 40 years ! ....TWRA has done a good job, mainly because they are an agency ... when you register your boat or buy your sportsman lic ... it stays in the TWRA.. not the Tennessee state, county or city coffers... .... <'TK>< :)

[Alphahawk]

First off the money does not go to the State !! It goes to benefit the Fisherman and Hunters of this great State, to provide more outdoor enjoyment, hunting and fishing species as well as boating and hunting education ... ... And they have done a DAMN GOOD JOB OF IT over the past 30 years! ... We have fought to keep the TWRA out of the State humdrum of political control, we have to much of that now! ... We are blessed that the TWRA is an agency not mixed up in bureaucratic politics ... I have no problems paying for licenses, or anything that they request as long as they provide the outdoor sportsman activities and use all of the money that they collect to provide us with this and they have done all of this so far ... We are the great Lakes of The South ... we have nice ramps and accesses .. and numerous public docks for the handicap, ... Move to Fla and have to pay for a lic to fish the Atlantic Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico ...Like they were stocking it ?? ... To be Guide is your choice, I have been one, No one owes you anything ..,. Like anything else in this great country if you work hard enough at anything and have the attributes to reach the pinnacle you will be rewarded. If you are average at what you do accept it ... or move on to another profession.

I have known a lot of professional guides in my life here as well as in other states ... and I have only found a hand full that was independent to accomplish that ... the rest had a DAY JOB.(Proof your Crappie Guide has cabins a store and storage ... I bet you most of his major income comes from that business, he does the guiding for a little income and the prestige of being called a prof guide.) So let's don't kick down the TWRA until you know who gets the money ... And yes trout is the issue now, I have seen the TWRA take action when other sporting species was altered due to a loss of funds ... a hell of a job managing Deer in the 60's , managing turkey the late 80's and early 90's ... Stripers in the 70's and even Muskys in the 50's and 60's that are still reproducing at Rock Island, Collins the Rocky and Dale Hollow and they haven't been stocked in over 40 years ! ....TWRA has done a good job, mainly because they are an agency ... when you register your boat or buy your sportsman lic ... it stays in the TWRA.. not the Tennessee state, county or city coffers... .... <'TK>< :)
Whoa there.,.....First I am not knocking TWRA..lets get that straight from the start. I bought a Trout stamp for years before I stated to Trout fish...because I knew that money went to a fishery for Trout somewhere. I also know that regular license money stays in the TWRA. We are on the same side here don't think I am not. I don't know where this new money will be going...if they even implement this program. I am more than willing to pay much more for a Trout stamp to fish. There is more to this issue than a Guide Tax fee. There has been discussion....from what I have read and heard that someone wants to limit the number of people using a tail water at a time...maybe out of state folks would only be allowed on certain days. I can live anywhere but I chose to live here..and for good reason....the all around fishing here is great and the reason for that is TWRA. It just does not make sense to me what this program is meant to do..and I guess none of us will know until they say yay or nay and announce what it will do. TN gets quite a bit of money from the Pittman-Robertson Act simply because our fishing permit and hunting are combined...and I am the first one to say that they spend the money wisely. Once again..it is just not clear to me what they are trying to do. I fully support TWRA and think it is a fine organization and has and is doing a great job.


Regards

[Mike Anderson]

This is all due to some whinney guides/fly shops who want/hope to eliminate as many guides as they can. It's a money grab for a shrinking piece of pie in a tough economy. If the outa state guides take their business elsewhere TWRA will actually loose money. Leave no doubt this is nothing more then a few privileged folks trying to make it hard on the guys who have to work a day job and guide to keep their heads above water. There is no doubt that it will cost the agency alot more then it is gong to make.

[tkwalker]

This is all due to some whinney guides/fly shops who want/hope to eliminate as many guides as they can. It's a money grab for a shrinking piece of pie in a tough economy. If the outa state guides take their business elsewhere TWRA will actually loose money. Leave no doubt this is nothing more then a few privileged folks trying to make it hard on the guys who have to work a day job and guide to keep their heads above water. There is no doubt that it will cost the agency alot more then it is gong to make.

Well stated Mike .... <'TK>< :)

[clean air]

I can remember when if you wanted to see a turkey you had to have a picture and if you got a deer you really did something.TWRA hit a homerun with us that hunt these animals and hunting tags go up everyyear it seems but I will keep buying them.