Roll Call 9/6-8

[Buzzy15]

Who is going fishin? I'm trying to fish below old hick on Saturday. Been the best place in the area for me. I'm FINISHED for a couple weeks fishin for crappie. I'm probably trolled enough this summer to go around the banks of the lake 3 times.

I want some big old catfish.

the tug is the drug

[Flatline]

Who is going fishin? I'm trying to fish below old hick on Saturday. Been the best place in the area for me. I'm FINISHED for a couple weeks fishin for crappie. I'm probably trolled enough this summer to go around the banks of the lake 3 times.

I want some big old catfish.

the tug is the drug


I've never fished below the dam and those so called catfish.. those things are illusive like big foot. I keep hearing about it but haven't seen one on the end of my line so far this yr :p

[Buzzy15]

I've never fished below the dam and those so called catfish.. those things are illusive like big foot. I keep hearing about it but haven't seen one on the end of my line so far this yr :p

Honestly get a sabiki rig and catch some skip jack. nothing on the river will resist them. You wont be skunked again. I'll be there and if I have a spot open on my tiny jon boat you can park your butt on it and we will get tight.

Only rules,
NO talk of Politics or Religion period.
No guns.
Clean your own fish.

[Buzzy15]

You out here? Flatline!


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[Flatline]

You out here? Flatline!


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Sorry Buzz, didn't see your reply until now.. Had some business to take care of the last couple days and I'm in the middle of smoking a pork shoulder right now.



You are right.. no place for religion or politics while fishing :D


Maybe next time ?

[Buzzy15]

Absolutely next time. We had a lot of fun.


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[agelesssone]

Honestly get a sabiki rig and catch some skip jack. nothing on the river will resist them. You wont be skunked again. I'll be there and if I have a spot open on my tiny jon boat you can park your butt on it and we will get tight.

Only rules,
NO talk of Politics or Religion period.
No guns.
Clean your own fish.

Why no guns?

[tkwalker]

Why no guns?

Good Question... TK:eek:

[Flatline]

I understand his request of no gun... Although I am permitted to carry and have to go thru several back ground checks ever couple yrs as well periodical when I am involved with sensitive military or power plant business. I see others that carry that I wonder how they are allowed out the house. Personally I would like to at least meet up with a person a time or two before I would feel comfortable around them, especially with a gun.



My boat my rules, your boat your rules... ;)

[Buzzy15]

I understand his request of no gun... Although I am permitted to carry and have to go thru several back ground checks ever couple yrs as well periodical when I am involved with sensitive military or power plant business. I see others that carry that I wonder how they are allowed out the house. Personally I would like to at least meet up with a person a time or two before I would feel comfortable around them, especially with a gun.



My boat my rules, your boat your rules... ;)



Flatline you nailed it. Glad to see you have a good understanding of caution.

I’m very pro gun, but I’m also pro drinking. Guns and booze don’t mix. I have to see if you’re a water rat.

If you cannot go fishing without a gun then I have questions about you. I’ve never ever fired a shot while fishing and I go about 100 days a year, every year.

Good enough for ya?


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[SAMBOLIE]

Flatline you nailed it. Glad to see you have a good understanding of caution.

I’m very pro gun, but I’m also pro drinking. Guns and booze don’t mix. I have to see if you’re a water rat.

If you cannot go fishing without a gun then I have questions about you. I’ve never ever fired a shot while fishing and I go about 100 days a year, every year.
Good enough for ya?


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Thankfully most never need a gun. However, doesn't matter how many days you haven't needed one, what happens if you need one and don't have it?

Take a gun and leave the booze at home. Safer for all.

[Buzzy15]

Thankfully most never need a gun. However, doesn't matter how many days you haven't needed one, what happens if you need one and don't have it?



Take a gun and leave the booze at home. Safer for all.



I’m not getting drunk but some people do. I’m always driving so I may have two while I’m out. But it gets hot and my partners can have’em I don’t care how much they have.

I’m going by the odds and I’ve never had to fire a shot so I don’t need one. When have you ever been in a gun fight on the water? Or heard of one? What odds do you think it will end well? Plus what is a pistol going to do past 15yrds? Are you carrying your AR on the boat so you can accurately shoot your target from range?

Honestly the rational of being paranoid or the “wish a mother would try” both seem like a huge waste of time.
To each their own. I’ll carry when I’m in the city but I never do on the water.


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[Flatline]

I carry on my boat because I'm fishing alone, usually at a secluded ramp where its easy to get ambushed. I have to agree, alcohol and guns don't mixed, in fact its illegal and that is a good way of going to jail if the warden catches you.

Personally I drink very little and yet to have any booze on my boat. I carry plenty of water and Power Aid... Alcohol and 90* plus heat don't mix all that well either.


I will defend Buzz on this for the simple fact that he doesn't know me... Besides I want to go fishing not dispute philosophical ideas about stuff we have no control over any ways... I go fishing to have fun and relax... if that is possible when you know the fish is right there but they want to play hard to get.. :D

[Buzzy15]

I carry on my boat because I'm fishing alone, usually at a secluded ramp where its easy to get ambushed. I have to agree, alcohol and guns don't mixed, in fact its illegal and that is a good way of going to jail if the warden catches you.

Personally I drink very little and yet to have any booze on my boat. I carry plenty of water and Power Aid... Alcohol and 90* plus heat don't mix all that well either.


I will defend Buzz on this for the simple fact that he doesn't know me... Besides I want to go fishing not dispute philosophical ideas about stuff we have no control over any ways... I go fishing to have fun and relax... if that is possible when you know the fish is right there but they want to play hard to get.. :D



Right on right on. We will find’em!


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[tkwalker]

Sorry to say... I am going on 74 years old and can't get in a boat anymore with out help ... I have always had beer on board in the past except when guiding ... As well as a 357 mag, 24/7 no matter where I am ... guiding, pleasure, or even Walmart and even church and a movie theater!

In the past I have defending fellow Bass Tourney mates who had been accosted by road rage on the water from either a drunk or meth head with my fire arm ... And that was in the 70's...

With the meth heads and other drugs out there now, no matter where you go ..One needs to protect themselves ... Use common Sense !! In my opinion any one who ventures out on our water ways with out a fire arm is a fool in this day in time !! Beer or no beer ... as Client Eastwood said ... Every one should know their limitations in this case, either drinking or firearms ... ... TK ..

PS. As far as politics go I wouldn't get in a boat with a far Left Liberal Democrat ... Right off the bat you know he is not going to be carrying, and wants someone else to protect him .. Thank God for people who have stepped up to protect this country and the meek or just folks who do not know what they would do in a crises, indecision's will get you killed .... SSGT. TK Walker Vietnam Vet. TET offensive 1968/69

[Texas_Rig]

Sorry to say... I am going on 74 years old and can't get in a boat anymore with out help ... I have always had beer on board in the past except when guiding ... As well as a 357 mag, 24/7 no matter where I am ... guiding, pleasure, or even Walmart and even church and a movie theater!

In the past I have defending fellow Bass Tourney mates who had been accosted by road rage on the water from either a drunk or meth head with my fire arm ... And that was in the 70's...

With the meth heads and other drugs out there now, no matter where you go ..One needs to protect themselves ... Use common Sense !! In my opinion any one who ventures out on our water ways with out a fire arm is a fool in this day in time !! Beer or no beer ... as Client Eastwood said ... Every one should know their limitations in this case, either drinking or firearms ... ... TK ..

PS. As far as politics go I wouldn't get in a boat with a far Left Liberal Democrat ... Right off the bat you know he is not going to be carrying, and wants someone else to protect him .. Thank God for people who have stepped up to protect this country and the meek or just folks who do not know what they would do in a crises, indecision's will get you killed .... SSGT. TK Walker Vietnam Vet. TET Offensive 1968/69

If you hadn't put your name at the bottom, then I would have sworn my dad wrote that. He is also a Vietnam Vet. I'm very pro gun but I never carry a weapon unless I'm hunting. It drives my dad crazy. Whether it be his house, boat, shop, or truck he's never more than 2 steps away from a firearm if he doesn't have one hidden on him. And you would never know it unless you have a close relationship with him. He doesn't preach to everyone about guns or anything so most of his acquaintances have no idea, but you better believe he's ready to protect himself and his family at any moment. I keep my boat in his shop so I see him all the time when I'm leaving to go fishing. I always laugh to myself because every time I leave and he's there he tells me a location of a sidearm and that I should grab it on my way out. He knows I'm not going to but doesn't miss a chance to remind me. I know he worries a lot about me fishing by myself so much but my best friend who fishes with me most of the time is just like my dad so usually there is a firearm on board.

[Buzzy15]

Sorry to say... I am going on 74 years old and can't get in a boat anymore with out help ... I have always had beer on board in the past except when guiding ... As well as a 357 mag, 24/7 no matter where I am ... guiding, pleasure, or even Walmart and even church and a movie theater!



In the past I have defending fellow Bass Tourney mates who had been accosted by road rage on the water from either a drunk or meth head with my fire arm ... And that was in the 70's...



With the meth heads and other drugs out there now, no matter where you go ..One needs to protect themselves ... Use common Sense !! In my opinion any one who ventures out on our water ways with out a fire arm is a fool in this day in time !! Beer or no beer ... as Client Eastwood said ... Every one should know their limitations in this case, either drinking or firearms ... ... TK ..



PS. As far as politics go I wouldn't get in a boat with a far Left Liberal Democrat ... Right off the bat you know he is not going to be carrying, and wants someone else to protect him .. Thank God for people who have stepped up to protect this country and the meek or just folks who do not know what they would do in a crises, indecision's will get you killed .... SSGT. TK Walker Vietnam Vet.



T.K. You can do what you want and I don’t care. I’m a very able bodied young man that has farmed, worked construction and worked hard labor my whole life. I played 4 years of NCAA division 1.
I also live by the phase “perfect preparation prevents piss poor performance” I have a plan and a back plan and a back up back up plan already formed before it arises.

I’m no liberal but I’m also not a republican. I’ve been called a libertarian and and anarchist just this week.

I’ll put it this way “I don’t care if my gay neighbor defends his weed and coca plants with his suppressed AR-15 that has a drum mag and a bump stock on it. Afterwards we’ll drink out of his still on some tax free likker”

If you can’t get along with me you just want more govt and regulations. Both things that get in the way of our fun.


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[tkwalker]

T.K. You can do what you want and I don’t care. I’m a very able bodied young man that has farmed, worked construction and worked hard labor my whole life. I played 4 years of NCAA division 1.
I also live by the phase “perfect preparation prevents piss poor performance” I have a plan and a back plan and a back up back up plan already formed before it arises.

I’m no liberal but I’m also not a republican. I’ve been called a libertarian and and anarchist just this week.

I’ll put it this way “I don’t care if my gay neighbor defends his weed and coca plants with his suppressed AR-15 that has a drum mag and a bump stock on it. Afterwards we’ll drink out of his still on some tax free likker”

If you can’t get along with me you just want more govt and regulations. Both things that get in the way of our fun.


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Well Said ..... TK

[Flatline]

Sorry to say... I am going on 74 years old and can't get in a boat anymore with out help ... I have always had beer on board in the past except when guiding ... As well as a 357 mag, 24/7 no matter where I am ... guiding, pleasure, or even Walmart and even church and a movie theater!

In the past I have defending fellow Bass Tourney mates who had been accosted by road rage on the water from either a drunk or meth head with my fire arm ... And that was in the 70's...

With the meth heads and other drugs out there now, no matter where you go ..One needs to protect themselves ... Use common Sense !! In my opinion any one who ventures out on our water ways with out a fire arm is a fool in this day in time !! Beer or no beer ... as Client Eastwood said ... Every one should know their limitations in this case, either drinking or firearms ... ... TK ..

PS. As far as politics go I wouldn't get in a boat with a far Left Liberal Democrat ... Right off the bat you know he is not going to be carrying, and wants someone else to protect him .. Thank God for people who have stepped up to protect this country and the meek or just folks who do not know what they would do in a crises, indecision's will get you killed .... SSGT. TK Walker Vietnam Vet.




God Bless you :)


I'm sure you have seen a lot of changes in your 74 yrs.

[XxthejuicexX]

I’m going by the odds and I’ve never had to fire a shot so I don’t need one. When have you ever been in a gun fight on the water? Or heard of one? What odds do you think it will end well? Plus what is a pistol going to do past 15yrds? Are you carrying your AR on the boat so you can accurately shoot your target from range?


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I actually fish with a friend that keeps an AR in his rod box, I find it funny. My Glock 19 has a RMR mounted to it and it can be shot well out past 15 yards, 50 yards is pretty easy, 100 is very doable. If you are engaging at those distances shit's pretty serious, not a Personal defense situation.

[JeffsLowe]

I always carry when I am out, mainly because I want to come home to those who need me. Priest is pretty much like a 3rd world country nowadays - and when was the last time you heard about any of the shootings or break ins being solved? Meaning those criminals are all still out there and also know they are unlikely to get caught. You are pretty much on your own when it comes to your security.

Although I live close to Priest I mainly like to fish/hunt/hike up on the Plateau. Much prettier and wilder there plus you have mountains, gulfs, rivers, walleyes, muskies, and hogs for more variety. And while its much safer crime wise law enforcement is pretty scarce so again you are on your own. I have a place up there that is very isolated - behind my gate security is pretty much up to me as law enforcement would be a long time getting there if they could even find it.

I am like TK I would never let a libtard in my boat or on my land as they are the enemy of all I hold dear in life. Not really a worry though as the CSA battleflags on my boats and SCV plates on my vehicles work great for lib zombie repellant.;)

[Halli]

I just carry a small framed Ruger when out and the area's that
concern me most are ramps and gas stations.

And yes I have been approached at Old Hickory Beach launch area
late at night and had to draw on a belligerent person that would not back off. I feared for my safety and as such drew my firearm of which
Mr. Methhead got sober quick and left me alone.

Now day's for me it's like my pocket knife if I leave the house without it I feel like I have left my wallet.

[Flatline]

I find it sad that we as a society have found ourselves having to carry to protect ourselves while trying to fish.



One nice thing I'm seeing is those of us that are willing to voice our opinions, that we are like minded :D

[Buzzy15]

I find it sad that we as a society have found ourselves having to carry to protect ourselves while trying to fish.



One nice thing I'm seeing is those of us that are willing to voice our opinions, that we are like minded :D

Ya it is confirmed, you're allowed to fish with me anytime. :D

[tkwalker]

I just carry a small framed Ruger when out and the area's that
concern me most are ramps and gas stations.

And yes I have been approached at Old Hickory Beach launch area
late at night and had to draw on a belligerent person that would not back off. I feared for my safety and as such drew my firearm of which
Mr. Methhead got sober quick and left me alone.

Now day's for me it's like my pocket knife if I leave the house without it I feel like I have left my wallet.

Yep, I bet it is a Ruger LCP 380.. Nice guns .. I use one for a back up most of the time or my North American Arms 22 Mag revolver.... TK

[Buzzy15]

I just carry a small framed Ruger when out and the area's that
concern me most are ramps and gas stations.

And yes I have been approached at Old Hickory Beach launch area
late at night and had to draw on a belligerent person that would not back off. I feared for my safety and as such drew my firearm of which
Mr. Methhead got sober quick and left me alone.

Now day's for me it's like my pocket knife if I leave the house without it I feel like I have left my wallet.



You can’t handle a drunk when you’re sober?


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[Flatline]

You can’t handle a drunk when you’re sober?


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I don't think its so much of handling as much as unpredictability. Besides a drunk is one thing and its another when you have one that is tweeking or is on something a lot worse. You hear it all too often when a cop tasers someone and it doesn't even effect them. Its easy to talk about defending ourselves out there, but its completely different when its actually going down. Its hard to predict how a drunk or a tweeker is going to react. Kind of like a bass... will it hit a worm, spinner or a jig and will it run towards you or the other direction :D

[Texas_Rig]

I used to work in bars and night clubs and I've seen drunks that could not be stopped by one person. The scariest thing I've ever seen was a drunk raging one night. I saw the destruction that he inflicted on a few vehicles and had he got his hands on a person it would have been really bad.

[Halli]

Yep, I bet it is a Ruger LCP 380.. Nice guns .. I use one for a back up most of the time or my American Arms 22 Mag revolver.... TK

Bigger,... The new LC9s is a great gun although it was made with no Safety I am as safe as can be and use Hornady Critical Defense Ammo.

I target Shoot with FmJ but my loaded ammo is Hornady CD!

[Halli]

Sorry if any of ya'll had to go into your safe space for a bit!!!! But the Leaders of the future where talking and will allow an opening as long as a it follows the OLD Constitution! Yeah we are the Guard.......We are Thomas Paine, James Monroe, Benjamin Rush, And so On. Least ye Forget!!!

[tkwalker]

You can’t handle a drunk when you’re sober?


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Here is an example why some people go armed ... Age! and Disabilities! ... We are not young and virile as we once were... And reading your post it sounds you can pretty much handle most physical situations ..

But some older folks who are surviving Cancer, or had four 1/2 inch bore holes bored in there skull to remove two golf ball size subdural hematoma's, or two stints in their heart, or have an inoperable rotatory cuff, or have two knees that need to be replaced, can't physically protect themselves except by hitting them with their cane ... So this is another variable one must consider.

As far as me NO ONE is going to lay a hand on me or to cause me bodily harm to the point I am in fear of my life,or any one else who cannot defend themselves .... TK:)

[tkwalker]

Bigger,... The new LC9s is a great gun although it was made with no Safety I am as safe as can be and use Hornady Critical Defense Ammo.

I target Shoot with FmJ but my loaded ammo is Hornady CD!

Hornady shells is the way to go ... the 9mm Ruger is a nice gun.. As far as external safety's a lot of the gun manufacturers did away with them after the FBI were having agents killed do to the fact none of the Mfr's had safety's standardized '' So about 20 years ago the FBI went with Glock ... three internal safety's but the trigger is live if it is chambered ... The safety is the gun owner.. Hey.. This is the same for a revolver .. The owner is the safety.. TK:)

[Alan 54]

God Bless you :)


I'm sure you have seen a lot of changes in your 74 yrs.

I have been giving some thought to buying a marine grade shotgun. I would still have the sig on or near me and keep the shotgun in the rod locker. Naturally with would be loaded with a combination of slugs )) buck shot and maybe a round or two of turkey loads.

[Flatline]

I have been giving some thought to buying a marine grade shotgun. I would still have the sig on or near me and keep the shotgun in the rod locker. Naturally with would be loaded with a combination of slugs )) buck shot and maybe a round or two of turkey loads.


I have a M&P Shield 9mm I'll carry with me, but my baby is a Old Spanish Starfire 45 acp with Hydroshocks and silver HP. What I really want is a small Derringer

[Buzzy15]

I don't think its so much of handling as much as unpredictability. Besides a drunk is one thing and its another when you have one that is tweeking or is on something a lot worse. You hear it all too often when a cop tasers someone and it doesn't even effect them. Its easy to talk about defending ourselves out there, but its completely different when its actually going down. Its hard to predict how a drunk or a tweeker is going to react. Kind of like a bass... will it hit a worm, spinner or a jig and will it run towards you or the other direction :D



Agreed.

Change the scenario a bit. if you’re carrying because someone may ambush you and they have a gun, what good is your gun going to do? If they have the draw on you then the last thing you should be thinking about is your gun. Right?


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[Buzzy15]

Here is an example why some people go armed ... Age! and Disabilities! ... We are not young and virile as we once were... And reading your post it sounds you can pretty much handle most physical situations ..



But some older folks who are surviving Cancer, or had four 1/2 inch bore holes bored in there skull to remove two golf ball size subdural hematoma's, or two stints in their heart, or have an inoperable rotatory cuff, or have two knees that need to be replaced, can't physically protect themselves except by hitting them with their cane ... So this is another variable one must consider.



As far as me NO ONE is going to lay a hand on me or to cause me bodily harm to the point I am in fear of my life,or any one else who cannot defend themselves .... TK:)



Understand and cannot disagree. While we are on the topic. Anyone have a kimber micro 9 they are looking to sell? I want to get one for my wife


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[tkwalker]

I have a M&P Shield 9mm I'll carry with me, but my baby is a Old Spanish Starfire 45 acp with Hydroshocks and silver HP. What I really want is a small Derringer

Flatline see pic here and on my previous page on this pistol .. It is a five shot 22 Mag. I removed the smaller grips and added the larger ones, it is a single action with a safety system that the hammer does not rest on the shell.... It has a muzzle velocity 2200 FPS (feet per second with Horneday fire tips) My 357 Mag is 1400 FPS .. Same as a 30-30...

The bore is a 22 but the cartrage has a bigger Diameter and it is longer in length. North American Arms has a very nice product line.... TK

[SAMBOLIE]

Flatline see pic here and on my previous page on this pistol .. It is a five shot 22 Mag. I removed the smaller grips and added the larger ones, it is a single action with a safety system that the hammer does not rest on the shell.... It has a muzzle velocity 2200 FPS (feet per second with Horneday fire tips) My 357 Mag is 1400 FPS .. Same as a 30-30...

The bore is a 22 but the cartrage has a bigger Diameter and it is longer in length. North American Arms has a very nice product line.... TK

I have one in the standard 22. Very accurate at 2 to 4 ft.
I carry a Ruger LCR 38 SPL +P.
Sometimes carry 9MM Shield. Just not as comfortable to carry as the LCR.

9949

[Buzzy15]

Flatline see pic here and on my previous page on this pistol .. It is a five shot 22 Mag. I removed the smaller grips and added the larger ones, it is a single action with a safety system that the hammer does not rest on the shell.... It has a muzzle velocity 2200 FPS (feet per second with Horneday fire tips) My 357 Mag is 1400 FPS .. Same as a 30-30...



The bore is a 22 but the cartrage has a bigger Diameter and it is longer in length. North American Arms has a very nice product line.... TK



I like that TK


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[tkwalker]

I like that TK


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The 22 mag. is a whole different ballgame from a standard 22 Long... Now this little jewel takes a little more mechanical manipulation when loading (cylinder has to be removed) To set the safety groove the hammer needs to be half cocked and lowered... But it is sweet ..... TK;)

[Flatline]

Flatline see pic here and on my previous page on this pistol .. It is a five shot 22 Mag. I removed the smaller grips and added the larger ones, it is a single action with a safety system that the hammer does not rest on the shell.... It has a muzzle velocity 2200 FPS (feet per second with Horneday fire tips) My 357 Mag is 1400 FPS .. Same as a 30-30...

The bore is a 22 but the cartrage has a bigger Diameter and it is longer in length. North American Arms has a very nice product line.... TK




I have to admit I like that little thing, but I have an issue with the muzzle velocity, and I will tell you why.


Statistically most of your defensive shootings are within 5 to 15 feet, according to my CCW instructor. A 9mm is roughly 1210 FPS, they are also known to go thru a person providing it doesn't hit bones. 22 mags is 2200 FPS, almost double the velocity.



God forbid if I find myself in this situation as to where I find myself having to shoot someone... I don't want to find out that a innocent by-stander got it too because the bullet went thru the offender. Also I can't imagine a round that goes thru someone at such a high speed will do much harm as the round is not going to have time to expand.


I know I carry a 9 mm, but it also has 7-8 rounds. I like a .45 for the simple reason that the velocity is only around 800 FPS and is known for its stopping power.



Apparently modern testing of ammo includes shooting thru 4 layers of cloths in front of a gel block. Ideal penetration is between 12-18".



Because of the above is why I'd love to find myself a used Derringer .45 ACP (new is too expensive for my blood)

[tkwalker]

I have to admit I like that little thing, but I have an issue with the muzzle velocity, and I will tell you why.


Statistically most of your defensive shootings are within 5 to 15 feet, according to my CCW instructor. A 9mm is roughly 1210 FPS, they are also known to go thru a person providing it doesn't hit bones. 22 mags is 2200 FPS, almost double the velocity.



God forbid if I find myself in this situation as to where I find myself having to shoot someone... I don't want to find out that a innocent by-stander got it too because the bullet went thru the offender. Also I can't imagine a round that goes thru someone at such a high speed will do much harm as the round is not going to have time to expand.


I know I carry a 9 mm, but it also has 7-8 rounds. I like a .45 for the simple reason that the velocity is only around 800 FPS and is known for its stopping power.



Apparently modern testing of ammo includes shooting thru 4 layers of cloths in front of a gel block. Ideal penetration is between 12-18".



Because of the above is why I'd love to find myself a used Derringer .45 ACP (new is too expensive for my blood)


Flatline, yes you are dead on (But like I said before you have to know your limitations and you are responsible for every bullet that leaves your muzzle, no matter a BB or a Barrett 50 cal ... It's called Practice, practice, practice ... No matter what you shoot you have to know what the outcome will be ... You are welcome to come over to my place in Lebanon ... I have a shooting Berm ) ...

Velocity and impact are to totally two different things ... It is called knock down power.. That is why when the Colt model 1911 45 cal came out for the military... Now The Horneday red tip 22 Mag. is primarily a rifle varmint ammo which was developed by Winchester ... If you want to slow it down use a Winchester 22 Mag. hollow point ... their velocity is 1550 FPS ... In fact I have a friend who was shot with a 22 long and the bullet actually followed the bone after entry and did major damage ...

These are not designed to be knock down weapons but a close range weapon especially at the head especially if you load it with 22 Mag. Snake shot... I also have a friend who loads these ... which I think is a bad idea for a number of reasons .. If you need to use the weapon at this close range there is only one end result ..not to mam or blind .. (22 Mag. red tip)

Think about this .. 90% of all gator hunters use 22 Mags...

Now when shooting a North American 22 Mag. with Horneday shells it is louder than a 9 mm and you do have a slight wrist yank.... TK

[Halli]

I have to admit I like that little thing,



Because of the above is why I'd love to find myself a usedDerringer .45 ACP (new is too expensive for my blood)


I found a Nickle derringer .357 for $150.00 4 years ago at a pawn shop.
So they are out there in bigger gauges you just have to keep looking.